Distorted effect for live vocals?

[mattpocket]

Hi guys,

Long time no speak,

So my band has me on vocals now, well, screams really. And we've recently been into the studio and recorded. I used a sansamp on my vocals as well as having a dry signal recorded. At the minute I dont know which will be used on the finished master, but I know what I would like to use in a live situation.

I want a mildly distorted fuzzy sound, without feedback and maybe appearing slightly filtered (so it sits back in the mix). I have read though that using a plain old distortion pedal would cause a lot of feedback. I have looked into a bitchrusher / bugcrusher, has anyone tried screaming into one of these to see what it sounds like? I doubt it, but it would be great to hear a sound sample if anyone has one.

Thanks

Matt

[Processaurus]

Since often at shows the vocals are on the edge of feeding back, anything that clips them will either have to add gain (and take it closer to feedback) or make them quieter.

The only way I can think to make it work is to only use the distortion vocals in the house and use clean for the monitors.  Or use a distortion with a noise gate, like a glitchy gated fuzz.  Maybe mix the gated fuzz with clean vocals to make more textural and less abrupt seeming in its gating.

One time when I saw mike patton he used a cb with a momentary switch on it for his distorted vocals, so it would probably feedback from all the sick gain, but taking his finger off the switch kills the mic.

[trevize]

maybe a bitcrusher could work without adding gain. You could easily use it in a live situation.

I made a layout that can be found here. It's verified and a really easy build.

http://www.diyitalia.it/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=55&catid=130

[brett]

Hi
not my area, but...

Since often at shows the vocals are on the edge of feeding back...

Isn't this true of the usual dynamic mic setup because of the relatively low sensitivity and reliance upon high gain in the mic preamp. 

But what about a high level signal that doesn't get treated with such high gain, such as the output from a condensor (or even carbon) mic? And screaming will help.  You could clip that easily enough eitheir in the preamp, say with feedback diodes around an op-amp, or after the preamp with diodes to ground or similar.
cheers

[mattpocket]

I was thinking the clean in the monitor route might work too, as well as the fact a bugcrusher might not produce so much gain.

I'm going to just have to wing it on the night and hope for the best, if not, i'll be screaming my lungs out to distort my horribleness even more.

A momentary isnt really an option, cos I'll be playing guitar and have quite a lot of back vocals, it'd be constantly switching on and off, not giving me the chance to jump round like a crazy goon.

Matt

[jschwalls]

I use a Sparkle Drive as a channel insert on the vocalist... then he can control the mix and on/off of his distortion... no headaches for me.

i would have ran it as a sub mix, but they are all used up.

also.... if you want to clean up your monitors... start by rolling off everthing below 100hz and cut the hell out of 100hz as needed to reduce the "BOOM" in the monitors Trick here is that cutting 100hz will also cut all the other octave frequencies as well 50hz, 200hz, 400hz, 800hz etc.. but in such a slight way that it will not degrade the sound at all.. remember to make the rolloff smooth don't just slam all the sliders to -12
.... also 400hz-800hz scoop out a bit, focusing on 630hz -4 max is enough here.
if you need more clarity in monitors add 1.5K slightly.
On your mains add in 3hz. just a bit, but cut 1.5 if it was boosted in monitors...

Make all eq adjustments from left to right, listening as adjustments are made. Sorry i just had to say that , lol.

JON






Jon

[gez]

Perhaps use a really crap mike? Those things cab companies used to use; or a CB radio mike, maybe; or those mikes that harp players use ( they always seem to introduce a bit of distortion).

Edit:  One of the best buskers I ever saw played harp/sang into a megaphone.  Made him sound like Howling Wolf, and got him heard!

[jschwalls]

Yeah, megaphones are great.... Scott Wyland of Stone temple Pilots uses one.. great effect...

[Nasse]

Been thinkin if some 50 and 60´s recordings have nice little distortion from diode compressor, instead tubes or fancier gadgets...

[snoof]

Perhaps use a really crap mike? Those things cab companies used to use; or a CB radio mike, maybe; or those mikes that harp players use ( they always seem to introduce a bit of distortion).

Edit:  One of the best buskers I ever saw played harp/sang into a megaphone.  Made him sound like Howling Wolf, and got him heard!

the shure green bullet is the goto mic for that telephone distorted kinda vocal thang.

[gez]

the shure green bullet is the goto mic for that telephone distorted kinda vocal thang.

I just looked at the prices of those things.  Around the £100 mark.  Pretty funny considering the original blues guys used these sort of things because they were cheap.  Even funnier that Sony makes such a lo-fi mike! 

[Mark Hammer]

Seems to me that any old handset telephone mic might be just the ticket.  There's the distortion you get from processing the mic (which is I suppose where you started out in your thinking about this), and there's the distortion resulting from yelling into a mic that is simply not equipped to handle high-amplitude signals.

Of course, what the telephone expects to see as audio signal, and what the PA expects to see, are two different things.  So, you may have to make yourself a booster to bring the level up to whatthe PA wants/needs.  Since the phone mic cartridge will likely be high impedance crystal, the booster will need a high input impedance.  That has MosFet booster written all over it.

[petemoore]

  seems like if it was run out of phase, peaks were limited some, waveforms basically mangled to the point of not even looking like any ~exact frequency, it might help break the feedback loop.
 I *think it's the peaks which make 'hard corners' which 'swings the pendulum at near the speaker excursion limit which puts through the air into the mic an accentuated peak and the same effect which it has on guitar [increasing feedback induced sustain], it has on the mic [increased feedback.].
 With the guitar in the loop it's 'controlled feedback' because the string sets the pitch.
 With a mic the frequency at which feedback occurs is 'uncontrolled' and the pitch is whatever frequency...is least resistant to feedback, very often a high pitched squeal when using say an OD or fuzz effect in a mic which has feedbackloop potential [ie has monitor in proximity to induce it].
 Maybe a crossover distortion [distorts the signal 'in the middle' instead of at the peaks], and some compression wouldn't cause the 'speaker jerk' that peak clippers produce.
 Then there's the HF Factor, HF drivers typically sound rough or harsh when a clipped distorter signal is put to them, I have best results when not combining HF drivers and clipping distorters, the cone speakers rolloff is a nicer feature for distortions in general, IME.
  or...After reading it...what Mark said.

[jayp5150]

gez and snoof beat me too it lol. I was going to suggest a Green Bullet. That's a good sound.

If you need an example, listen to Blind Man In The Dark by Gov't Mule.

[snoof]

Gov't Mule made good use of the green bullet back in the day.  Les Claypool uses it quite a bit as well in the frog brigade.  It's a great lo-fi vocal sound!

[Gus]

If you have a opamp based mixer sometimes turning the gain up and using the EQ knobs can be fun.   Sometimes the opamp distortion can sound cool with some EQ

[ambulancevoice]

maybe Travis Brown's Starfuzz? crazy gated octave (i think) fuzz
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=63956.20
John L/Basic Audio did soundclips

[theandyman123]

Hey Man,

I always love the distorted vocal sound.

First choice - Megaphone

Second choice - http://www.instructables.com/id/Telephone-Handset-Microphone/

I haven't done it personally but it looks like a fun little build.

[mr.adambeck]

Are you just singing?  Or are you playing an instrument too? 
I recently rewired an old telephone receiver to have a 1/4 inch jack and a push switch.  This way when it's not being used, you just don't press the switch (therefore no feedback).  I've tried it at home at a quiet level and it sounds really cool, but I haven't tried it at a full volume practice or show yet.  The trick is that if you use the ear piece rather than the mouthpiece you don't need phantom power.  I've made them before without the switch and they sound awesome but can be very prone to feedback.
You'd need to be just a singer though (Unless maybe you somehow wired the switch through a pedal), since you'll need to be pressing the switch on.  Also, maybe try a noise gate...

[Isaiah]

Try messing around with the Mu-Amp / Mini-Booster.
You might need to run your mic into a pre-amp first and then adjust the signal volume
sent to the pedal.