could I, should I - take a transformer apart?

[kvb]

I am working on something that uses a transformer as a pick-up simulator.

I have decided that I need another one because the effect will have two channels. (Please don't ask why I can't just use the same one twice, I'll explain when I post the schematic later)

I don't think I can use both sides because of feedback - I tried something like that on the breadboard - I remember clicking


So I'm thinking about making one just for fun, but I already have one - I'm just using one side.

I could take the TMO18 off of the board and break it into two.


I do not want to try it and end up with NO transformer.


Possible problems:

The thing just falls apart
I get a pile of wire and no way to mount it to the board


Thoughts?
Thanks

[R.G.]

The two "sides" of a transformer are not really two sides. They are two different "views" of what's really happening, the magnetic field inside the core. The two sides are intimately coupled, and cannot be separated without making the transformer not be a transformer.

Get yourself a second TM018.

[bancika]

if you need another opinion, here it is

[kvb]

I was typing fast during my short lunch and should have used the term "Inductor."
That's what I'm using the transformer for.   I'm only going through one side. the other side is just sitting there taking up space.

I could make one. (pick-up simulator for buffered fuzz)

If I am going to make one, my next question will be: How many turns/ windings should I use?  But, the answer to that question might not really matter because I'm willing to experiment a bit.  (The thing that I have has been put together mainly based on how things sound.) It might be nice to have some clue though. 100, 200? 500?


I'm just trying to keep things on the board as is.
The circuit is a working prototype - meaning it is on perfboard, and going through its final tweaks.

[bancika]

to make it correctly you'd probably need a inductance meter, there were some schematics that show how to make it yourself, so you don't pay too much for the "real one".

[MartyMart]

GO ON .. get your Dremell out and chop it up into pieces 

[ambulancevoice]

yeah! lets sit back and watch as he uses his dremell to CUT THROUGH AND IRON CORE!

[kvb]

So do the devilish looks mean that I won't be able to get the thing apart without evil powers?

Or is it a diabolical thing to attempt?

Um. I think you are telling me that I can try . . . , but it might not happen.

I'm not looking at the thing right now, but I know that there is a cover that goes over the middle. this could be glued on.
this cover goes over the iron core part.

The iron core does not go under the x-former. It is is like an upside-down U, right?

I'm thinking that I could push the windings toward the bottom and pop them out after I take off the plastic bit.

[R.G.]

I was typing fast during my short lunch and should have used the term "Inductor."
That's what I'm using the transformer for.   I'm only going through one side. the other side is just sitting there taking up space.

I could make one. (pick-up simulator for buffered fuzz)
If I am going to make one, my next question will be: How many turns/ windings should I use?  But, the answer to that question might not really matter because I'm willing to experiment a bit.  (The thing that I have has been put together mainly based on how things sound.) It might be nice to have some clue though. 100, 200? 500?

I'm just trying to keep things on the board as is.
The circuit is a working prototype - meaning it is on perfboard, and going through its final tweaks.

That's too bad.

Here's the problem. The magnetic field inside the core is what is really happening. Both windings provide access to this one thing. There is no "other side", there is only the one magnetic core. All windings on that one core are magnetically linked; you cannot make two simultaneous, non interfering inductors out of the same core, at least not in the way I understand you want to do. Course, could be I don't understand you.

Here's a way to look at this: the transformer is like one of those two-sided hot-dog trailers where there is one guy inside and two windows, one on each side. There can be a line at both windows, but there's still only one guy inside making hot dogs. The second window is just another port into the singular process.

Yes, you can make an inductor. The problem is that you can earn money to buy another TM018 faster than you can find and acquire the materials for the inductor, let alone wind another one. The materials are specialized, and not available everywhere.

The windings you want will display an inductance up in the 1/2 to 4 Henry range. Getting that much inductance requires hundreds if not 1k or more turns of very fine wire to get it into a small physical size.

So do the devilish looks mean that I won't be able to get the thing apart without evil powers?
Or is it a diabolical thing to attempt?
Um. I think you are telling me that I can try . . . , but it might not happen.

It just means that you know little enough about inductors and transformers that the devil inside most of us would make us take some amusement at your efforts in trying to do this. It is a simple task in theory, but all of the steps in getting it done are relatively difficult and expensive.

I applaud your single-minded-ness and drive. But we are trying to save you some time and effort. Go for it if you want. I'll be happy to advise you as you go.

But ask yourself whether the object is to learn to smelt iron ore and copper to make the transformer cores and wire to make the inductor, or whether it's to get another inductor in there to make a functioning effect. If you just want to learn how to do the entire string of operations and the technology involved, welcom to the club. I'm similarly inflicted. But if you want to play your guitar and hear the sounds, just buy the easy-to-get inductor and modify your layout.

It's a question of objectives. Like draining swamps and alligators.

[ambulancevoice]

no what i meant is that good luck cutting through a iron core with a dremell!!!

[raulgrell]

If you want to use a transformer as an inductor, but don't want to waste the other half of it, I think you could try connecting the other half to different parts of the circuit. Experiment as much as you can. I have been playing around with some different configurations of transformers getting some nice sounds...

Good luck with whatever you go for!

[kvb]

OK, I understand.

Taking it apart, if it were even possible, would destroy what it is.

I appreciate the explanation, the patience, and the jovial prodding.

As far as more experimentation is concerned, I've been working on this for some time now - I'm trying to get it DONE ( is there a smiley for slightly exasperated? )

I will practice some patience and try to figure out what else I may need before I order some parts.

I suppose I've got room on the board for another tm018. The clean side (hint, hint) was probably going on a daughter board anyway.


Hey raulgrell - I hope you can post some clips and schemes.