moving to silver solder

[Captainobvious99]

It is convenient to manipulate people when you can convince them that they will become sick or die if they do what you don't want them to do.

First, silver is not nonpoisonous. Just less than lead. Silver is actually used in antimicrobial preparations.

Second, you're not looking for silver solder. You're looking for "silver bearing electronic solder". The material for which the term "silver solder" was coined is a high temperature hard solder, containing a relatively large amount of silver. The silver bearing electronic solders are mostly tin, perhaps 1.5-2% silver, and perhaps some copper and other trace materials. There is no magic in silver bearing electronic solders. They do not conduct better, sound better, have less distortion, be more reliable, whatever. They just don't have lead in them. They are substitutes that were forced onto industry. They have resulted in less reliable electronics the last few years as manufacturers furiously tweak their soldering processes to work with them, instead of relying on the previous ...century... of experience with tin-lead.

Third, silver bearing electronic solder is markedly inferior to tin-lead for the hand builder. It is much easier to make bad joints with it, as well as being harder to remove when you need to make repairs. I speak from experience.

Fourth, if you think that you are poisoning yourself by using lead solder, you are suffering from listening to extremists and manipulators. Tin-lead solder does form some oxides on the outside of the solder. These are not the biologically active forms of lead, although no lead is really good for you. If you practice even haphazard hygene when using tin-lead solder, you will not ingest lead - or breath it; we'll get to that. If you do not eat or drink while soldering and wash your hands before eating (always a good idea, eh?) you will not ingest lead from soldering. There have been many, many industrial studies. If you smoke while soldering, you are poisoning yourself much faster with the smoking than with the solder. If you go to smoky bars and clubs, you are poisoning yourself much faster than with the soldering. "Solder" fumes are the vapors of the flux, not the lead. Lead does not vaporize into the flux fumes. The materials in the flux vapor that clean the joints are a mild breathing irritant, so they're not good to breath, but they are not a significant source of lead poisoning, even to people who solder all day, every day.

Now to the particulars:

1) is it worth it?

Is silver solder worth the added expense...it is there so it must be preferred for some reason by some users.

No. However you may be forced to use it. The EU has legislated tin-lead solder out of electronics to prevent quickly obsolete stuff like cell phones and computers from putting lead into landfills. As a result, they are forcing manufacturers to use a more difficult to use substitute in SnAg or SnAgCu solders. It is "preferred by some users" because either they are forced to use it by law or they do not understand it and think that if it's silver it must be better somehow.

2) I use 20 - 40 watt irons, should those do for the extra heat required

If lack of heat was a problem with 40w iron, I'd worry about overheating traces or components.

Normal irons get hot enough to - barely - work with SnAg or SnAgCu solders, especially if they are not temperature regulated. Regulated irons need turned up.

3) do I need to make any special parts considerations

No.

This is a terrific post. Thanks !

[Mick Bailey]

I did some research a couple of years ago into waste recovery from electronic equipment for a local authority. We established the economics of separating waste streams from redundant PC kit and decided upon the contractors who would take the waste. We intended using sheltered employment workshops to provide the labour and plough all profits back into securing employment for adults with learning disabilities. The enterprise was to be profit-making and self-financing. The waste was (and is) plentiful and we intended to process waste from other public sector organisations - the local university and heath authority.

Where it all fell apart was when we met with the local authority Head of Waste Management. They had a European permit to incinerate computer and electrical waste under WEEE regulations (Waste from Electronic and Electrical Equipment) as they had a generator that hung off their incineration plant. Under the guidelines this constituted 'recovery' and they were quite happy to continue burning the stuff.

The main problem though was pollution levels in the gasses emitted by the plant and keeping within guidelines for toxins.

You can come to your own conclusions why removing lead would be a 'good' thing - it keeps the fires of hell stoked whilst reducing the atmospheric lead emissions from incinerator plants.

In Europe we have a landfill tax and a remit to reduce dumping of waste into landfill - hence burning as much as possible seems like a good idea........

[MR COFFEE]

@Unidive,

I have used the same Sn-Pb- 2% Silver alloy you received and it worked OK for me. If you don't like it PM me and I'll buy it from you or trade you some plain 62/37 tin-lead eutectic.

I think some folks around here are confused by the ROHS-driven lead-free Silver solder business, plumbing lead-free solder, and high-temp silver solder (like 50% silver) used for brazing metal pieces.

What you have is only a little bit different from the eutectic you are used to - it flows just as well if properly fluxed. Stick with rosin rather than the "organic" fluxes if you can - but ventilate well. YMMV.

mr coffee

[JHS]

I use cheap Chinese solder, not RohS conform and nothing special.
My advice: Instead buying silver solder do an investment in audio-quality caps ands pots. The last thing will improve the sound the first not.

JHS

[Ben N]

A soldering iron tip tinned with silver solder makes a handy device for stabbing vampires--let's not forget that.

[The Tone God]

A soldering iron tip tinned with silver solder makes a handy device for stabbing vampires--let's not forget that.

Silver is for werewolves. Any plain stake will work for vampires. Do we not have enough to deal with around here with all this mojo hype stuff to start mixing this important survival information up ? And just shoot zombies in the head.

IMHO DIYers, stick with lead solder. I still use lead solder for personal projects. As for health concerns as long as you wash your hands, wear gloves, use a fume extractor, and don't eat the solder this should you will resolved the vast majority of health issues surrounding either solder.

Andrew

[Michael Weidenauer]

I once tried Sn95/Ag5 solder and I somehow liked it, but I switched back to Sn62/Pb38 solder because it needed too much heat and was hard to desolder.
Since one or two years I only use Sn99/Cu1 stuff and I'm very satisfied.
Maybe it takes a bit more heat and doesn't flow like Pb-solder, but it's still very good to work with, has less fumes and it's cheap too.

[Ripthorn]

I used the Sn/Ag/Cu solder for several projects and it worked just fine for me, I actually didn't notice much of a difference between that and 60/40, at least with my iron.  I actually started using 60/40 because it is so much cheaper than silver bearing solder.  Just thought I would toss my experience into the mix.

[frank_p]

A soldering iron tip tinned with silver solder makes a handy device for stabbing vampires--let's not forget that.

Silver is for werewolves. Any plain stake will work for vampires. Do we not have enough to deal with around here with all this mojo hype stuff to start mixing this important survival information up ? And just shoot zombies in the head.

   

Yes yes, silver bullets... And you can hang them with those too...  One bullet, two shots.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/ambackissues/SilverAudio.htm

[PoopLoops]

oh, I don't think silver has any magic properties

outside of NOT being poisonious. It's health alone that I am concerned with


so what's a good mix/brand of rohos solder?

Silver solder is used in very low temperature settings because it will still conduct heat instead of crumbling.  That's about it, though.

[rnfr]

the only reason i use the stuff is because it comes in a smaller diameter than the lead stuff at RS. i use the lead stuff when soldering wire connections, pots, etc., and the silver stuff usually when working with vero board.  i guess it makes my clumsy hands work a bit better.

[frank_p]

What I would like to know is how lead intoxication exist.  Not only from paint containing some forms of oxides but there must be some other case studies ?  We can discuss on and on, but to understand how it happens we must understand the mechanisms or processes.

What pops out of my head is:
- Surprisingly it seems that there are more people poisoning themselves in houses than in industry. 
- If it mimics calcium and it is stored in bones and teeth, what happens after for an adult ( I've not heard of bones samples );
- On what forms does it is assimilable (what are the forms of Pb that are more critical, NAMES), does some alloys is less risky than pure Pb;
- How long is the half life of Pb in the bloodstream, when it causes irreversible damages in adults before it is evacuated and stocked in the bones;
- They say that it is accumulating over a lifetime in the body and realeased really slowly from the bones;
- It's perhaps less critical for adults (10% of the Pb ingested is kept in the adult body, up to 50% for childs), but maybe more dangerous to children's (developmental problems).
- Guys that have gun shots in them, don't necessarily develop lead poisoning. 
- etc. etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

The problem is that if I put my mind in a "neutral state" and then inform myself, the more I read about lead poisoning the less I understand.

It seems to me that a lot of mechanism in this is not well understood and the doctor will say to you that you have a lead intoxication if you present the symptoms and if they have positive blood samples.  Other than that things are a bit foggy.

There are so many sources of nervous system injury (and other damages caused that have in common other health problems) that the doctor could misinterpret the problem.

One thing I know now, is that it is not a good idea to drink wine and make salads in lead containers. 

[Ben N]

There are so many sources of nervous system injury (and other damages caused that have in common other health problems) that the doctor could misinterpret the problem.

This is a very common problem I have learned of while litigating lead paint cases--because of the difficulty of proving causation, often the presence of lead contamination at any level and the occurence of any of a broad variety of cognitive, developmental or social deficits are pretty much automatically linked, even though the mechanism of exposure is unknown, and the symptoms may be attributed to any number of causes and environments. While blood levels can be monitored, there is no consistent, direct one-to-one correlation between low or unsustained blood lead levels and injury. So there ends up being a lot of guesswork and surmise involved.

[The Tone God]

The funny thing is the lead is not really the most dangerous part for the solderer. Its the flux in the solder. The flux in lead free solder is more active then the lead solder so it is more dangerous for the solderer. The fume extractor is more important for the solderer then the possible lead contamination that can easily be solved with washing hands and gloves.

Andrew

[frank_p]

The fume extractor is more important for the solderer then the possible lead contamination that can easily be solved with washing hands and gloves.

I doubt that many here use extractors and gloves.  I think it is good measures to take when you want to limit your exposure. Thanks
Do you still use your activated coal on 12V fan or you use an extractor that puts the fumes outside ?

[The Tone God]

I doubt that many here use extractors and gloves.  I think it is good measures to take when you want to limit your exposure. Thanks
Do you still use your activated coal on 12V fan or you use an extractor that puts the fumes outside ?

They should use extractors and glove. The gloves are not just handy for lead but for protection against burns and other mishaps.

I still use the 12V fan. I've been happy with it.

Andrew