FYI: Tube Screamer Mods not all great ideas

[FrankB]

   Hi Everyone,
     As I have previously posted I have rescued a TS5 from the trash. In one of my more selfabsorbed quests in fixing something I repaired it to it's original design, then tried out some of the more popular (or mods I could find on the internet) Mods that people do to tubescreamers.
     Needless to say some of them were pretty horrible from a sonic perspective and from a mathematical prespective as well. Yeah, Mathematical.....I'm no math wiz but I have slept in a Holiday inn or 2 over the years... and the really cool calculator at general guitar gadgets is pretty sweet.
For instance one of the more popular (seems so anyway) mods is to swap a .15 cap for a .47.. O.k. seems like a fun idea. But if you don;t also change the resistor to a different value you'll pretty much create something not very ear pleasing, like throwing a blanket over your amp, or it may turn your tone control into something that makes dogs cringe when you move it 1 millimeter...
  So, after performing some of these "mods" I wasn't too pleased with ther outcome. After listening to how these mods effected the sonic charistic of what is a tube screamer, I decided to dive into scary territory with guns blazing... or soldering iron blazing, whatever....
  All of the caps I replaced I traced to their companion resistor (s) and did the math to equate the corner frequencies and resonant  frequency using the original Cap, I then adjusted the math or punched in the respective resistor into the calculator to get the proper frequency or something close to what is supposed to be correct for which ever tube screamer you are trying to emulate or enhance.
  It suddenly took on a new tonal character. such as, The specific dryness and sweetness that's inherent in an old 808, I seem to have found it. Or that mean snarl that an old ts9 Has, it's there as well if you want it...
Essentially you can reshape the sound by respectively changing a series of components rather than dropping in different caps of different values here and there. All that will do is creat a chaotic frequency storm leaving you with one of those " I guess that's cool..." moments....
   

Here's my question, If you change some components to different values but end up with the same frequencies will the tone be different? I feel it will because of how you get there, ie; the journey will be different. Is that literal in a science that is electronic engineering specifically stomp boxes. Because I replaced alot of the components with higher quality versions.
   any advice is great,
  Thanks,
   Frank

[drewl]

Well you could overanalyze anything to death, look at all the info on Fuzz Faces and that's a much simpler circuit.
By changing the frequency response of different sections of the TS, your also changing which frequencies are amplified at certain stages and as you discovered sometimes the results are not very pleasing.

[rogeryu_ph]

FrankB,
Try this mod, hope this help what your looking for.. I recently saw this mod unfortunately I already built one TS808 using PCB. I'm planning to breadboard this tone control mod maybe some other time. Give me feedback if you tried it.
http://www.muzique.com/lab/tstone.htm

Roger

[Melanhead]

mods are such a personal thing ... I find that most people that I've modded TS's for just want a little more bottom end, basically a flatter frequency response ... but how much is too much ? well that depends on your amp setup, guitar etc ... and of course a blue LED! 

As far as the corner frequency question it really depends on where you change the cap/resistor ... In the feedback loop, for instance, lowering the resistor and upping the capacitor by approx the same ratio will increase the gain but keep the same frequency response.

My favorite TS mod is to make it sound like something totally different .... do the stock ts9 to ts808 converstion, the chip being the most important part (I use the RC4558P), up the input cap to .047, change the feedback cap and resistor to .22uf/1K and change the clippers to LED's ... Basically a Landgraff OD. You can go one step further and add a toggle to go stock clippers, LED's or no clip for a booster... then another step further ( and fairly popular mod )  would be to replace the 2 tantallon caps ( around the tone section ) with metal film and the two 1uf electrolitics that are in the signal path with Metal film as well .... but to each his own 

There's nothing wrong with NOT modding a pedal ...

But ya, there are some bad mods out there, it's really all in the ears anyways, not the math ... To quote Eddie Van Halen, "If it sounds good, it is good"

[gijimmbo]

... To quote Eddie Van Halen, "If it sounds good, it is good"


i think that quote actually came from Duke Ellington back in the day.  not that it matters.   

[Gus]

Go to the ampage archives.  Look for TS threads.

[Melanhead]

... To quote Eddie Van Halen, "If it sounds good, it is good"


i think that quote actually came from Duke Ellington back in the day.  not that it matters.   

that could also be true ... I got it from Eddie many years ago, but can't remember if he was talking about tone or songwriting ...

[R.G.]

Having proved to myself decades ago that not all mods are good mods, I simply can't understand BUMS (Blind Urge to Mod Syndrome).

I'm all for a person's own ear being the final arbiter, but that being the case, asking someone else for a good mod seems self defeating.

And I wonder if people think that the original pedal designer didn't try lots of stuff in search of just the right recipe, the right mix of this and that, the right compromise when there's a conflict. Do people really think that a pedal must necessarily be wrong in some way that it needs changed?

No, all mods are not necessarily good mods. If you know what you want and know some steps in that direction or can describe it to one skilled in the art to make the changes for you, then mods may make sense. But modding for its own sake??

[gutsofgold]

Trying to talk about gear and mods with my grandfather will put a lot into perspective. He always asks about what I am doing lately and usually its something with pedals or amp mods. I usually get "leave well enough alone", "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" or "quit talking your gear and play your guitar". He has toured with Neil Young so I have to respect it.

[afrogoose]

"then another step further ( and fairly popular mod )  would be to replace the 2 tantallon caps ( around the tone section ) with metal film and the two 1uf electrolitics that are in the signal path with Metal film as well "


I'm not trying to beat an already beaten, and dead horse here about the merits of substituting metal films for electros, but I'm curious about 1uf metal films in that the only ones I've ever seen are really huge.  Does anyone know where you can find reasonably sized ones, or is the size a function of their value and thusly standardized?  It would be cool if they made a boxed metal film version. 

[Melanhead]

here you go ...

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=P4675-ND

Digikey is in the US and Canada ...

Don't worry about beating a dead horse ... some believe and some don't ... I, personally, am not sure 

[afrogoose]

Bob, thanks for the link!  These seem to be smaller than the rectangular ones you find at Radio Shack.  I've never bothered with them before because they're so big I figured it wasn't worth the hassle. 

[ubersam]

...but I'm curious about 1uf metal films in that the only ones I've ever seen are really huge.  Does anyone know where you can find reasonably sized ones, or is the size a function of their value and thusly standardized?  It would be cool if they made a boxed metal film version. 

I've been using the AVX yellow boxed 1uF caps, 7.5mm x 8mm x 5mm, the leads are kinda short though.

[Melanhead]

Bob, thanks for the link!  These seem to be smaller than the rectangular ones you find at Radio Shack.  I've never bothered with them before because they're so big I figured it wasn't worth the hassle. 

No prob ...

They are quite small and aren't much bigger than the electrolytic caps they replace ... These are the same ones Keeley and Analogman use, AFAIK ...

[Gus]

For fun look who first posted about Pan Vs at the ampage archive.

[baddayinparadise]

I'm confused. the ggg tube screamer and the tone pad screamer both have the 1uF caps as NP film caps. Are they supposed to be electrolytic? I've replaced the tant's with film, and the 1uF are film too, and I'm not a fan of the sound at all. That might be because I have a ruby and a TS clone running off the same 12V supply though.

[R.G.]

There can be no disagreement about matters of taste.

If you don't like the sound, it's bad for you.

In the original TS I think they were NP electrolytic. Most people like the sound they get replacing them with 1uF film. There is, and can be no "correct" there - only what your ear tells you you like.

[Dragonfly]

... To quote Eddie Van Halen, "If it sounds good, it is good"


i think that quote actually came from Duke Ellington back in the day.  not that it matters.   

Its generally attributed to Joe Meek. 

[Melanhead]

Cool ...i guess many use that quote! 

[d95err]

I'm confused. the ggg tube screamer and the tone pad screamer both have the 1uF caps as NP film caps. Are they supposed to be electrolytic?

You can use any kind of cap, as long as it's not polarized (i.e you can't use a normal electrolytic). There are non-polarized electrolytics though. You can also use tantalum or plastic (if it fits).