Reference amp for testing pedals

[tcio]

This might just be a dumb question but it's certainly worth a shot. I realize that every pedal sounds different through a different amp and that tube is different than SS and overall it can be a hit and miss situation when trying pedals out through different amps but does anyone know of a good inexpensive amp that works well as a reference amp for testing DIY pedals out while building/tweaking them?

It seems the ones I build straight from any of the DIY sites sound pretty good through all of the amps I try them on.  But when I tweak them and get them sounding super hot (to my ears anyway) on my amp they don't seem to do so well on other peoples amps. This is not a shock to me or anything but I wish I knew of a nice somewhat universal amp that worked well for this.

Obviously the optimal way would be to build the pedal based on the specific amp that it will be played through. Just wondering if anyone out there had any tricks or techniques they are willing to share regarding this and perhaps know of a an amp that seems to work fairly well for this.

[Baktown]

Good question!

I use my original Line 6 AxSys 212 with 2 sounds I programmed, one is absolutely clean and neutral sounding, the other is a Marshall JCM800 sound with a little reverb.  If it sounds good, then I try it through my Kustom 72 Coupe tube amp.

I could be wrong, but my logic is that if an effect sounds good through a good SS amp, it'll probably sound great through a good tube amp.

My 2 cents worth...

Rick

[earthtonesaudio]

Stupid simple method: output jack of effect -> headphones

Stupid complex method: DI to mixer, out to clean Hi-Fi system.

Smart simple method: output to one of the DIY cab simulators, then into a clean headphone amp.

Smart complex method: output to amp/speaker/microphone modeling of some sort (POD, computer software, etc).  Try 'em all!


Rick's method is good too.  Personally I take a finished pedal into the guitar store and have at it with all their gear. 

[andrew_k]

I use a roland microcube for a bench amp / practice. Lots of generic sounds, modeled on popular amps. Does ok, is cheap and runs off 9V DC.

[tcio]

Very good. Great info.

I could be wrong, but my logic is that if an effect sounds good through a good SS amp, it'll probably sound great through a good tube amp.

I'm thinking this same thing.

Also I liked the "Stupid simple method: output jack of effect -> headphones"

and the "Stupid complex method: DI to mixer, out to clean Hi-Fi system."

I think the less gadgets in the chain the less interference there is to alter the original sound of the pedal.

Thanks guys! Looks kind of like another one of those "less is more" type of situations in regards to getting basic accurate results in hearing the actual characteristics of a pedal (that came out a little garbled but its late lol!).

[mnordbye]

I don'y like the concept of amp and speaker simulators, so i always use my Peavey Valveking 112 amp. Great tube amp at an affordable price, allthough it sounds way better than you expect!

Magnus Nordbye

[gutsofgold]

I usually plug into my Ruby build (6" speaker) for a quick test. If I think its a good sounding build then I take it out to the garage for some serious ear damage with my JCM800 or 18watt clone.

[birt]

+1

i plug into a ruby (2 bridged 386 chips) and a 1X12 cab with some kind of boring sounding celestion. if an effect sounds good on that setup it will sound great on my JMP or any other good tube amp.

[Mark Hammer]

For many years, and possibly still going on, it has been common practice in recording studios to audition mixes via an assortment of speaker systems.  I know there was a period when the little Auratone cubes with the 4-1/2" full-range speakers were in almost every studio you can imagine, so as to have a sense of whether the mix sounded goodd through smaller speakers akin to car radios or table radios like one might have at work or by the sink when doing dishes.  If the mix sounded good through those, as well as through a large pair of expensive 3-way monitors, then chances were good that it would hold up i most listening environments.  It wouldn't surprise me if, these days, a pair of iPod earphones is added to that list of audition contexts, just to be sure.

While that approach makes eminent sense, it is assumed that the amplifier itself plays little or no role in the equation.  In our case, the amplifier itself can play a major role.  I emphasize can because amplifier type and even speakers can play a huge role for some pedals, and negligible role for others.  At one end, you have an assortment of DIY and commercial boosters whose purpose is to act in concert with the amp to extract a particular sound out of the amp.  I other instances, the nature of the pedal/effect is such that what you audition it through makes precious little difference.  So, it will matter vey much what you plug your Klon Centaur or Rangemaster into, but it will matter very little what you plug your FSH-1 or A/DA Flanger into.  Naturally if you have reason to suspect that the nature of the circuit will require you to put its bass content, or likelihood of producing breakup, to the test, then you will want to use something with more power and larger speakers to test the circuit out.  In a lot of other cases, something considerably more modest may well be perfectly adequate.  I know some of the things I've come up with that have been extremely well-received by many were auditioned on either an NJM2073-based 9v battery amp with a 3" speaker built into a case not much larger than the average multimeter, or the LM380-based 2W battery-operated job I posted on my website, that uses a 6.5" speaker.

[Gus]

A question like this is very good one to ask.

for time based with no distortion a clean amp solid state or tube.

Next low volume in the house or stage volume without a PA for the guitar amp(s)?

For distortion I like first using a tube amp with a 12" and 5 to 30 watts and a single coil  guitar.  Most distortion seems to work better with a turned up tube amp "pushing" the output stage.

  Now a distortion with an IC based preamp solid state amp is a bit different because the IC sections can have A LOT of gain on their own so it might not be about gain but EQ and a different setup of the distortion.

So if you are "DESIGNING" effects I would think you would want a few amps/speakers solid state and tube.  You would also want a number of different guitar types.

   Note having that you would need to teach you ear brain using one guitar and amp that you do not change. Then test the effect on different amps and guitars and take notes. 

I do think the designers at big manufacturers understand the use of their petals and how to make them sound good on a wide array of amps and speakers.  That is good design IMO.

FWIW when I change parts in a effect like a TS it is not because the stock TS is bad but maybe the player want more or less highs or lows at STAGE VOLUME.  Some people I know play on stage at a good volume level.   So what we have done is take the guitar amp and play it loud and then change parts, one friend has a number of TSs changed for different amps and guitars.

I often wonder when people post this or that mod, do if they test the mod at different volumes using different amps and speakers?

Then when you go in a studio it changes again.  One of the thing a good studio knows how to do is "slot" the instruments and voices so you can hear them in the mix sometimes this is done with microphone selection and/or preamp or sometimes custom made/modded guitar/bass amps that might not sound good on their on but very good in a mix and/or eq, compressing........

So the most important question might be what do you want to change in the sound?

[Faber]

Well, when I'm messing with my breadboard, I plug up to a Line 6 Spider II series with everything set to neutral and no effects.  It's a very clean, sterile sound.  (I have a Vox that I use for really playing.)

[tcio]

Thanks everyone for your input. You guys made some VERY good points. I use a lot of booster type pedals to drive my tube amp. Obviously that will sound totally different through a SS amp and get louder rather than saturate. On the other hand some distortion pedals may even sound better through SS than tube or vice versa. I also used a Ruby to try my pedals out in the past but I gave it to a friend as a gift and never got around to throwing another one together. Time FX definitely through a clean amp IMO also. I also agree, that's very good design when you can plug a pedal in almost any amp and have it sound good. I imagine the testing of these type of pedals must have taken quite some time.


I mostly just build boosters, overdrives and distortion pedals so I think from here I have a good strategy to start applying:

•   Get the overdrives and distortions to sound good through both SS and tube unless specifically building for one or the other - a super clean amp, or a moderate to high gain amp.

•   Boosters for gain purposes test on moderate to high gain amps, Boosters for volume boost test on SS.


Obviously with all the different options in amp settings, speakers, tubes, pickups, other pedals in the chain, etc. there is no guarantee the pedal will sound good through every amp on the planet but this looks like a good standard to start going by to me.

[Dragonfly]

Let me introduce you to the silverface Fender Champ ....

[Cardboard Tube Samurai]

I use a Fender Sidekick Reverb 25 for testing all my pedals.

[doug deeper]

i use one of those little vox pathfinder amps as my bench amp works ok.
i used to have a peavey bass practice amp that ruled for this purpose but it caught on fire.

[Dragonfly]

i used to have a peavey bass practice amp that ruled for this purpose but it caught on fire.

We regret to inform you that you're amp was "done in" by Mid-Fi Electronics.

Tell the truth Doug - it was an experimental pedal that destroyed your amp, wasn't it ? 

[frank]

I try in various amps that can be clean.  Generally, you know your amps and will have a general idea of how they will "behave".  Same thing for the cabs.  The combo that I use the most for testing is a SS keyboard amp (Peavey KB 60).  I know that with that amp, I am able to have a glimpse about how the effect is going to sound in various amps.  And the reason is that I have played a lot through this amp for practicing.  I really like to test in that amp, don't know why, but it's my reference point now.

[doug deeper]

i used to have a peavey bass practice amp that ruled for this purpose but it caught on fire.

We regret to inform you that you're amp was "done in" by Mid-Fi Electronics.

Tell the truth Doug - it was an experimental pedal that destroyed your amp, wasn't it ? 

not this time!
it was a broken bass keyboard (i was plugging it in for the first time to see what the deal was.........its still broken)
i do need a new speaker for my pathfinder though thanx to a certain 4 octave down signal!

[earthtonesaudio]

re: Mark Hammer's post, I always see a pair of Yamaha NS-10 speakers in the mixing room (the kind with the white woofer cones).  I asked a seasoned studio guy about this, and he said it was because they sound like crappy speakers that average listeners have in their homes.  Helps avoid the problem where the mix sounds great on $10,000 speakers, but terrible on an Ipod. 


Gus said: I do think the designers at big manufacturers understand the use of their petals and how to make them sound good on a wide array of amps and speakers.  That is good design IMO.

True, but when you design effects to sound OK on most setups, you have to compromise the things that would make it sound even better on a certain specific setup.  Which is why DIY people can find that "perfect tone" that was always lacking from commercial effects.  You can make something sound perfect... to you, on your unique setup, in your specific environment, with your ears, etc...

[tcio]

Exactly! That is what is so great about DIY. It is something I have dreamed of for over 20 years but was too intimidated to try until I got so fed up after spending hundreds on pedals and still not finding one I really truly liked. And that was even after I found an amp I did really liked too! It is definitely a different challenge trying to build and tweak a pedal for someone else. In order to really do it right you need access to their amp. And then their style can differ, the way the strike the strings, the personal tone they are after and what sounds good to them as opposed to what sounds good to you. Quite the challenge. One nice thing is that the DIY pedals or modded pedals (IMO) sound better than the store bought ones anyway so the user is more than likely going to be happy. I think with a good strategy (as discussed in this topic) one can come up with a half way decent sounding pedal for someone else but like you said:

but when you design effects to sound OK on most setups, you have to compromise the things that would make it sound even better on a certain specific setup.  Which is why DIY people can find that "perfect tone" that was always lacking from commercial effects.  You can make something sound perfect... to you, on your unique setup, in your specific environment, with your ears, etc...