What IC for the Tonepad DS-1?

[mattpas]

I am building a Boss DS-1 using the Tonepad PCB board.
I was wondering what would be the best sounding version to make?
The TA7136P or the TL072 or should I even try something else?

[Dave Simpson]

I built both versions and to me the TL071 sounded better. The low end was a little less flabby than the MIJ version.

[5thumbs]

I've tried the JRC4558D, JRC4558DD, RC4558, TL072IP and OPA2134PA in my various DS-1 builds.  I like the OPA2134PA the best by far, as it has the smoothest and clearest output of all the aforementioned op amps.  The TA7136 in my M.I.J. DS-1 sounds similar to the M5223AL dual op amp in the post-1994 DS-1 pedals, with the latter being a little less compressed sounding than the original chip.  The OPA2134PA sounds better than either the TA7136P and M5223AL.

Miqbal (my co-author on the 'Build Your Own DS-1 Distortion' doc, http://www.diystompboxes.com/DIYFiles/up/Build_Your_Own_DS-1_Distortion.pdf) also tried the LM358N.  He felt that it was very close sounding to the OPA2134PA he eventually used in his DS-1 build.

On the Tonepad DistoUNO build sheet, I'd also recommend using the TA7136P values for capacitors C1, C4 and C5, even if you don't use the TA7136P.  These are the same values used in the "MIJ Mod" for post-1994 DS-1 pedals.  You'll get more articulated mids than the stock post-1994 configuration, which is one of the reasons the pre-1994, M.I.J. DS-1 pedals are so desirable.

[mattpas]

I've tried the JRC4558D, JRC4558DD, RC4558, TL072IP and OPA2134PA in my various DS-1 builds.  I like the OPA2134PA the best by far, as it has the smoothest and clearest output of all the aforementioned op amps.  The TA7136 in my M.I.J. DS-1 sounds similar to the M5223AL dual op amp in the post-1994 DS-1 pedals, with the latter being a little less compressed sounding than the original chip.  The OPA2134PA sounds better than either the TA7136P and M5223AL.

Miqbal (my co-author on the 'Build Your Own DS-1 Distortion' doc, http://www.diystompboxes.com/DIYFiles/up/Build_Your_Own_DS-1_Distortion.pdf) also tried the LM358N.  He felt that it was very close sounding to the OPA2134PA he eventually used in his DS-1 build.

On the Tonepad DistoUNO build sheet, I'd also recommend using the TA7136P values for capacitors C1, C4 and C5, even if you don't use the TA7136P.  These are the same values used in the "MIJ Mod" for post-1994 DS-1 pedals.  You'll get more articulated mids than the stock post-1994 configuration, which is one of the reasons the pre-1994, M.I.J. DS-1 pedals are so desirable.

Thanks for the info.
So I should do the TL072 build but with the OPA2134PA and the TA7136P C1, C4 and C5 caps?

[5thumbs]

Thanks for the info.
So I should do the TL072 build but with the OPA2134PA and the TA7136P C1, C4 and C5 caps?

Yes.  In the BOSS-built DS-1, I find the TL072 to be splatty and awful sounding...much worse than the stock M5223AL SIL dual op amp.  The OPA2134PA is pinout-compatible with the TL072, so it'll drop right in.  The DistoUNO is a slightly different design, so perhaps Francisco has the TL072 working well in his design.

Use the cap values for C1, C4 and C5 from the TA7135P parts list.  This will give you the benefit of the "vintage" DS-1 tone with the benefits of a higher-fidelity op amp like the OPA2134PA.

If you want more bass without the distortion getting flabby, you can increase the in-line 0.047μF capacitor between the Input and Q1 to 0.1μF, as well as the in-line 0.047μF capacitor between the B100K LEVEL pot and Q3 with a 0.1μF capacitor.  If you're going for the stock, vintage tone, then leave the 0.047μF caps as-is.

Francisco's DistoUNO layout is a little different than the BOSS-made DS-1, but the aforementioned parts correspond closely between the two layouts.  These mods are validated as working (well) on the BOSS DS-1, so there is a very good chance they will work on the DistoUNO as well.

Good luck!

[kurtlives]

What IC is the new DS-1s using?

[5thumbs]

What IC is the new DS-1s using?

BOSS has very recently switched to the NJM3404AL from the M5223AL.  I just got another new DS-1 the other day (to be rebuilt as a Mondo-MIJ for a friend) and it was the first one I've ever seen with the latest chip in it.  I played it side by side with another stock DS-1 with the M5223AL in it.  The NJM3404AL is a little smoother than the M5223AL (the latter has this slight "yang-ey" characteristic on some chords, something the NJM3404AL doesn't have.)  The OPA2134PA is still smoother and more hi-fi than the NJM3404AL (to my ears), but it's nice to see BOSS has made a step in the right direction with the NJM3404AL.  Put the MIJ-Plus mod on that puppy and it'll rock, for sure.

I took a quick look at the components and layout on the "new" DS-1 and it does not appear that the 1994 PCB changes that came with the ROHM BA728N op amp have been altered.  They kept the same components when they switched to the M5223AL in 2000.  It appears that everything else stayed the same again when they swapped in the NJM3404AL.

[kurtlives]

Cool thanks...

Also how did you install the OPA2134PA? Where do you get those socket converter things?

[5thumbs]

Also how did you install the OPA2134PA? Where do you get those socket converter things?

If you want to make your own, I've included a ready-to-transfer adapter board layout on Page 19 in the current 'Build Your Own DS-1 Distortion' doc: http://www.diystompboxes.com/DIYFiles/up/Build_Your_Own_DS-1_Distortion.pdf.

However, Cimarron Technology sells them for pretty cheap.  I buy mine now because $3 is a nice luxury when I'm busy (compared with etching and drilling my own adapter boards.)  Here's the link to buy them: http://www.cimarrontechnology.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=34.  You can use these for either SO-8 (surface mount) dual op amps or for DIP-8 dual op amps.

[mattpas]

Bump for any more opinions.

[kurtlives]

Does anyone know if Mouser sells the OPA2134PA with all the pins in line? I can't really tell (I hate Mouser).

[5thumbs]

Does anyone know if Mouser sells the OPA2134PA with all the pins in line? I can't really tell (I hate Mouser).

Nope.  The only manufacturers selling SIP-8 dual op amps listed on Mouser are NJR and ROHM.  Not a single SIP-8 Burr Brown to be had there (if they exist anywhere.)

If you want a SIP-8 dual op amp, you might consider the NJM3404AL that comes in the latest DS-1 pedals.  To me, it's better than the M5223AL (and possibly even the TA7136.  GASP!)  Otherwise, you'll have to use a DIP-8 to SIP-8 adapter for more options.

Before I forget to ask, are you building the Tonepad DS-1, as the thread title originally stated?  If so, then the in-line pads on that layout are for the TA7136P or another 7-pin single op amp with the same pinout.  SIP-8 dual op amps won't work in that position in the layout.  Given that, Francisco put DIP-8 pads in the layout, so in that case you're all set for the OPA2134PA.

[mattpas]

one more bump

[brett]

Hi

Given that, Francisco put DIP-8 pads in the layout, so in that case you're all set for the OPA2134PA.

There's a whole history of things available with the search function, concerning DIP-8 dual op-amps.
Having done some of the work, and having read a lot of the threads, I'll try to summarise many in a few points -
1. Older "twin 741" chips like the JRC4558s are noisey but have some appeal for people who like a certain "roughness".
2. The TL072 is you vanilla flavoured chip.  It's good.  A solid choice.  Certainly not the worst.
3. The NE5332 is a very quiet chip. Some of the gurus endorse this chip.
4.  The CMOS chips.  Some people go nuts over these.  I suspect that there's some magic in there, but I don't know the full story.
5. Other BJT input op-amps (e.g. LM358).  There are advocates for almost every chip.  One or two seem to get positive comments on a regular basis.  One of those seems to be the LM358..

Of course, this is only touching on a few general ideas.
cheers

[boom_zoom]

bumping....

also need help.... i am now composing my message....standby..........

[boom_zoom]

help pls......... i built a DS1 based on Tonepad's DistoUno. but its not working properly. there's sound but its just a clean sound, no distortion. btw im testing first without a stompswitch (just the effect). the sound is louder though compared to guitar directly connected to the amp. secondly, the vol/level pot and tone pot are not changing sound even though im turning them back and forth. supposedly when vol/level pot is set to min, there should be no sound but mine still has. same as with the tone pot.
also, when the gain pot is adjusted, i can hear a very very slight change but also just sound as if there wasnt any gain at all, and when set in max/full, loud humming sound occur so i have to turn it back just a little bit and hum is gone, back to just almost clean sound.
btw, i used the TL072 version. i even replaced it with a new one, thinking it was the problem, but still got the same thing.
what im doubting are the capacitors im using. apparently, tonepad doesnt list the kind of caps to use whether ceramic, metal film/mylar, or electrolytic. so when i bought the parts at a local shop, they just assume and gave me what they currently have.
can you please see the image below and help me identify the capacitors made of??
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/ds1tonepad.jpg
please also include the capacitors parts list of TA7136P just in case il be using it in the future.
i was able to spot those electrolytic capacitors because i based them in the diagrams since they have polarities. they should be 16v right?
but 1 quick question though, 1 electrolytic  i used is 50v rating, is it OK to use it instead of 16v??
also, when using the TL072 parts option, should i change the potentiometers value to a higher ones??? or it doesnt matter, that i should still use what was listed which are 100K linear for both vol/level and gain; and 25k linear for tone??

help please........TIA!!!

[Seven64]

i have used various op amps in both a metal zone and a tubescreamer.  my favorite in both was the opa2134, followed by the ne5532.  the 4558D was my 3rd, and didn't really enjoy much else. 

that being said, all the non-polarized caps don't really matter.  ceramics will work fine, but most people agree that film caps create a smoother tone. 

pot values should not change with the op amp.  you really are able to use any dual op amp that shares that pinout (all the ones mentioned above).  the e-cap values are fine.  check transistor orientation, IC orientation, and bust out your either your multimeter to get somebody some voltages, or use an audio probe to trace your signal.

i suggest the audio probe, as you won't have to wait for a reply on here.

[boom_zoom]

hi seven,
thanks for ur prompt reply. i will surely try the opa2134, once ive fixed my prob, as 5thumbs also recommended that IC.

"all the non-polarized caps don't really matter" - thanks for this info. at least im ok.

"pot values should not change with the op amp.  you really are able to use any dual op amp that shares that pinout (all the ones mentioned above).  the e-cap values are fine. " - cool! thanks!

"check transistor orientation," - this one i havent checked yet. as i just put the transitor based on the picture orientation on the PCB, not really doublechecking yet based on the schematics. i will check this immediately. thanks for bringing it up, less checking for me for all parts hehehe

"IC orientation" - this one im very sure that i got it right.

i will update later..........
for other suggestions, just feel free to reply....TIA

[WGTP]

A popular Rail to Rail CMOS.  I don't know the difference between TLV and TLC 2262.  Check out the diagram and look at all those FETs. 

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slos177d/slos177d.pdf

[boom_zoom]

I have checked the transistor orientations already and it was correct.
What could possibly be the culprit?

Btw i have one part that instead of a 470pf cap i used a 500pf, is that ok? Or could it be the reason??