building a Russian big muff to spec...

[gutsofgold]

Seeing how the green russian muffs go for nearly $200 on ebay and $4/gallon gasoline is keeping my wallet thin, I'd like to build my own green russian but I'd like to get as close as possible.

Judging by this picture, it involves...


-carbon film resistors
-ceramic disc caps (who makes the red ones?)
-metal film caps (the WIMA box type)
-a single tantalum cap??? (the yellow one on the far edge of the board)
-that leaves the single yellow cap in the middle of the board, is that a film or tantalum?

Could anyone point me in the direction of what values correspond to what type of cap?
On the tonepad layout, there is a single 10uF electrolytic and I can't seem to see any electros in that picture.

Thanks!

[killerkev]

I wouldn't bother with "exactly" using the same style componests. By using better parts, your pedal will sound even better than a stock Green Rusian.  I would use all metal film resistors & Metalized film capacitors. The only Electro is related to power and isn't in the signal path. I don't know what pic your refering to but here is one:



The one on the top of the pic isn't tantalum but I've seen many with an electro and is power related.
The one you refer to in the middle? I don't know what your looking at but again, metalized film will bring the sonic edge to a new realm.

[bumblebee]

yea they arent tantalum,they look it tho.
all caps a ceramic in the old and current russians.

[Solidhex]

Yo

  Guts of Gold did you build your Green Russian spec muff? I've built two so far and have not gotten close enough to the sound of the originals to be satisfied. The first I built with metal film and panasonic film caps. I socketed the 2 clipping stages transistors and tried a bunch of types and gains. Compared to the original ( I have 2 in my possession right now) it lacked low end, sustain, and did not do that cool compressed squash on single notes. The top end was too harsh.
  The second one I built with carbon film and ceramic caps. Definitely smoother. I socketed all transistors on this one. Again not enough low end  or sustain. I've experimented with different input caps (up to 10uf) and tried different sized caps in the diode path (up to 1uf). Things improved slightly but the Russian one comparatively still has a much bigger bottom end, tons more fuzz, and a more pleasing top end.

--Brad

[gutsofgold]

I was very disappointed in mine too! I've been meaning to get around to building one entirely with carbon comps and vintage ceramic caps but really it might just come down to buying a Russian one off ebay. I really want it for certain bass parts and it would see enough use to justify the price. I've played a few Russian muffs to be honest, two of the bands my band toured with had them and my old music teacher has one and even those three which are the same model all sound totally different from each other. 

[Ry]

I've built two so far and have not gotten close enough to the sound of the originals to be satisfied

Sounds like my original Russian BMP.  I hated the way it sounded until I modified the heck out of it.  It was really woofy and dark, not useable at all...

[Dragonfly]

I wouldn't bother with "exactly" using the same style componests. By using better parts, your pedal will sound even better than a stock Green Rusian.

I disagree...it will sound "different", but that doesn't necessarily equate to "better".

[AL]

I wouldn't bother with "exactly" using the same style componests. By using better parts, your pedal will sound even better than a stock Green Rusian. 

In my opinion you could plug into a duck and get a better sound than the Green Big Muff. It's thin, buzzy, and sounds like somethings broken. So, used stragically it's a cool effect. I was recently playing with a guy who used one - with an old Fender Bassman and an SG. You couldn't hear him in the mix... until he plugged into my NY Big Muff (which I've modded slightly). He quit using his and I had a real hard time getting mine back.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound negative about it. If you actually like the sound then build one. But, if you haven't heard one before don't expect miracles with it.

I've played a few Russian muffs to be honest, two of the bands my band toured with had them and my old music teacher has one and even those three which are the same model all sound totally different from each other. 

I think most Big Muffs are like that. No matter what model.

AL

[gutsofgold]

In my opinion the black Russian reissue sounds terrible compared to the green Russian so maybe you have them mixed up. Most people recognize the green ones because they are thicker and don't have that shrilly high end. Could be that variance again though.

I can't edit my post so I guess the pancake bunny remains 

[AL]

In my opinion the black Russian reissue sounds terrible compared to the green Russian so maybe you have them mixed up. Most people recognize the green ones because they are thicker and don't have that shrilly high end. Could be that variance again though.

I can't edit my post so I guess the pancake bunny remains 

Nope, it was definitely a Green Muff. It's still at my house. So, you're probably right about the variance. And there's nothing wrong with pancakes or bunny's. Although I prefer bacon with my pancakes.

AL

[Gila_Crisis]

for myself i just love the BM, and actually the one i build it's modded to my likings, it's like a mix of triangle and ram'head.

but well every muff has it's own soul!

[Dragonfly]

...it's like a mix of triangle and ram'head.

Triangle Head

[paperhouse]

anyone know what kind of transistors those are and where to get them? i have a feeling they're the key to the green russian muff's tone.

[gutsofgold]

you're probably right as I've searched for what they are and could never come up with anything.

the 2N5133 is used in a lot of old EH effects but those sounded terrible in my big muff build (compared to 5088's)

[Solidhex]

anyone know what kind of transistors those are and where to get them? i have a feeling they're the key to the green Russian muff's tone.

Yeah I'm sort of curious if the 2n5088 was read from a schematic or just an assumption. I've never seen a Russian Muff with any sort of labeling on the transistors. After building the two clones and not getting very close I would be curious to check them out.

--Brad

[gutsofgold]

Here is all I could come up with, hopefully it helps some of you out.

The Russian Muff uses E type transistors (newer ones use BC549C's though) which has a Hfe of around 500. I used BC184's as a great replacement of these transistors.
The NYC Muffs usually use 2N5088's or BC550's with a Hfe of around 800.
The Little Big Muff uses 2N5962 with a Hfe of around 1500 - 2000.
The Russian sounds darker due to the low gain.

2N5133's; used in Triangle ones (the NOS versions tend to sound even better then newer ones) as FS36999's. Very nice sound, smooth, warm, open.One of my favs!
BC239's; also used in a bunch of Muffs around. Slight less gain as the above named but this gives the Muff quite a nice touch.
2N5087's; PNP transistors instead of the above named NPN (more usualble). To use these you need to reorient some of the caps and change the + and - of the battery (called positive ground). Although they must be identical to 2N5088's they were used in some old models and do sound different.
BC141's; ultra low Hfe (around 100) and not suited for anyone out there. More bass, less gain but a very different sound.
MPSA13's; ultra high Hfe (around 10.000). Nice touch for some more gain.

[bumblebee]

i hate russian muffs,the are too "boomy" in the bass department and trying to play chords is just not gonna work.
the two russians i have i modded into NYC muffs and they are super sweet now.they sound a little different to a stock NYC but pretty similar.

[gutsofgold]

yeah but I play bass 

[bumblebee]

thats cool,just saying.

[Dragonfly]

you're probably right as I've searched for what they are and could never come up with anything.

the 2N5133 is used in a lot of old EH effects but those sounded terrible in my big muff build (compared to 5088's)

HFE range is important. 2N5133s are "all over the map" with regards to HFE.