Guitar into PC?

[bancika]

Do I need to build anything (DI box??) for plugging guitar directly into PC to be used with modeling software? I'd like to try guitar rig and maybe something else, but I'm not sure about this. Also, should it go into mic-in jack?
Thanks,
Bane

[George Giblet]

The minimum you need is a buffer.  The PC input impedance can kill the tone.  For absolute clean some guitars need attenuation.  Best is a simple gain stage which some means of controlling volume.

When you use high gain PC based effects I've found you can get internal feedback on the sound card.  It creates some really evil problems which are hard to diagnose.   The best way to stop this is to keep the impedance low driving the sound card and use good shielding between the input and output signals.

[rikkards]

From my (pretty limited) experience, I have tried it using the mic-in and it works but you have to limit the input volume as it gets buzzy. Usually I have used my GT-6 in between and adjust the volume on that to fine tune it blus provide some amp modeling but I have used a fuzz straight in. What I would like to do someday is maybe pick up a decent mike or DI box and see how that works.

Do I need to build anything (DI box??) for plugging guitar directly into PC to be used with modeling software? I'd like to try guitar rig and maybe something else, but I'm not sure about this. Also, should it go into mic-in jack?
Thanks,
Bane

[bancika]

The minimum you need is a buffer.  The PC input impedance can kill the tone.  For absolute clean some guitars need attenuation.  Best is a simple gain stage which some means of controlling volume.

When you use high gain PC based effects I've found you can get internal feedback on the sound card.  It creates some really evil problems which are hard to diagnose.   The best way to stop this is to keep the impedance low driving the sound card and use good shielding between the input and output signals.

do you have a schematic or something I can use?
Thanks alot!

[Mark Hammer]

I'm biting my tongue as I write this, but the simplest route may well be the Behringer USB-equipped guitar.  Cheesy, but passable, Strat clone with a USB jack.

The wisdom of that choice, of course, would depend on a) whether the guitar meets your specs for playability, and b) whether the A/D conversion on board the guitar meets or exceeds what you can provide via your soundcard.

[bancika]

I already have 3 guitars, it would be too much
I found some IC buffer at GGG http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_ic_buffer.pdf , can it work for this?

[Ed G.]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-Guitar-Link-UCG102?sku=241228

[Renegadrian]

Altough I like to build stompboxes, I love Zoom multiFX, like the 2020, 3030, 2100, 9000, G12.U...(got'em all!!!)

So my guitar goes thru one of those Zoom and then in stereo to the line in of my sound card...That's all...

[gez]

PC soundcards are pretty awful.  With this computer I'm typing on at the moment, I get clock bleed-through when recording with the internal card.  I bought an (external) Edirol by Roland soundcard last year and it's amazing - great sound and no bleedthrough.  It has a guitar/mic input, phantom power, midi in/out, effects blah blah.

Decent soundcard is a must, and probably all you need if your workstation has cab/amp simulators.

[Ed G.]

I'm using an ART MP Tube preamp into my soundcard. They're 29 bucks at Musicians Friend.
Sounds good and I can use it for other things as well.

[culturejam]

So my guitar goes thru one of those Zoom and then in stereo to the line in of my sound card...That's all...

Me, too. I use a Zoom G2 as a DI box. Turn all effects off except for cabinet emulation. The results are surprisingly good.

[lvs]

I have an obsolete Pentium 500 which I do some recording on. At a certain point I also became interested in amplifying a guitar through it with modeling software and did various er, unprofessional things with it trying out various software demos (demoes?). My intention was to find out how far I could go with real time amplification.

The first setup was guitar => BOSS GT-5 (bypass mode) => Soundblaster Live 5 Line IN => modeling software with ASIO buffering by kX project drivers. I managed to get audio latency well under 10ms, which is commonly mentioned as a minimum to be able to play without being bothered by a lag between fingers and ears. But higher gain patches were terribly noisy.

Then I tried guitar => BOSS VF-1 (bypass mode) SPDIF OUT => Soundblaster live 5 CD_SPDIF IN header => modeling software with ASIO buffering by kX project drivers. Normally this SPDIF connection is not 100% kosher because of a voltage mismatch, but it worked. Latency okay, and heaps less noise thanks to ADC outside the PC case.

An internal Audigy Platinum donated by a friend, replaced the Soundblaster Live. Guitar => BOSS VF-1 (bypass mode) SPDIF OUT => Audigy Platinum SPDIF IN => modeling software with ASIO buffering by Creative drivers. Latency well under 10ms, noise okay, somewhat improved audio quality. Eventually the best combination of everything I tried.

Then I got a UCA202 analog audio to USB converter, attracted by the low price and Behringer's "ultra low latency" promise. No fast USB driver was included, a one size fits all driver (forgot the name) had to be downloaded somewhere. Guitar => BOSS GT-5 (bypass mode) => Behringer UCA202 => PC USB 1.1 port => modeling software with ASIO buffering by generic driver.

My old Pentium has only USB 1.1 but that should be fast enough for 44100/16 stereo throughput. It wasn't. I couldn't even get close to 10ms latency, and even far away from it, it produced pops and dropouts and the USB protocol appeared to demand so much resources that there was hardly anything left for the modeling software itself.

Then I tried the UCA202 with a recent PC. Guitar => BOSS GT-5 (bypass mode) => Behringer UCA202 => PC USB 2 port => modeling software with ASIO buffering by generic driver. Stepping up to USB 2 was an improvement and a disappointment as well. Reaching 10ms latency was possible but not less and, the USB protocol again seemed to suck up resources so that there wasn't much left for the modeling software itself. I got much more from the old P500 through SPDIF, even some resource hungry modeling!

I tried the UCA202 and various downloaded USB drivers out thoroughly, excluding bad installs or mistakes etc. My opinion about playing guitar in real time into a PC through USB has become negatively biased. But I realize as well that I see it from my own limited experience - companies with a good reputation sell USB-interfaced gear and I don't read many complaints about it. The difference seems to be made by drivers especially developed for those devices.

But to be honest, after trying to understand the basic difference between USB and Firewire as (audio) protocols, I would rather save a little longer and get Firewire if I were to buy another PC audio interface. I see Firewire at work in our bass player's firepod, we make it work hard and fast and there's nothing negative to be said about it.

Because of the good experience I had with SPDIF, I looked for friendly priced standalone units on the web containing nothing more than the ADC, but that became a dead end.

Just my personal and limited experience.

[ubersam]

How about this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/SoundTech-USB-Intelligent-Instrument-Cable?sku=332600 ?

[ConanB]

Also, what would people recommend if I wanted to then have Guitar -> PC -> Amp?

I'm curious as to using a Micro/Mini/Pico-ITX for a programmable digital FX unit. Or true to my nature, a modded PS2 or Wii as a sort of FX processor...

Would it be just as simple as a cable to switch the PC audio out into a 1/4" jack?

[deaconque]

I'm pretty sure that if you buy Guitar Rig and get the foot controller then you should have all you need to go straight into your computer.  The foot controller (Rig Kontrol) is a usb midi interface that controlls the effects on Guitar Rig.  that's all assuming you have a decent sound card of course.

[km-r]

http://www.sound.westhost.com/project35.htm
i am building this because i often get shocks from the pc chassis...

[tehfunk]

I am using an M-Audio soundcard, which is great, but one disadvantage to many "recording" sound cards is that they don't have on board midi, not that necessary if you aren't working extensively with it, as I believe windows has a medium of playing midi, but you can't edit or something like that. So yeah the one I have:
M-Audio Delta 410 - http://store.m-audio.com/index.cfm?page=templates/product_detail&PartNumber=9900-40767-00&categoryid=88
is great.
Along with that, I use an alesis multimix 6fx 6 channel mixer, I believe, which is good, but I don't really use the effects. Lastly, I have a recording program on my computer, this will run you up quite a tab, but is worthwhile if you are looking for a nice amateur mini-studio. Hope that helps.

[ACS]

For an ultra budget option you can use the mic in of you sound card - just wire up the relevant plug.  Be warned though - you'll have to do some fiddling to get the levels right, and even then the sound quality is going to be dubious at absolute best!

Next step up would be something like this http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AM2036&CATID=&keywords=usb+guitar&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID= - this one doesn't seem to have level control either, though at AUD$30 it's nice and cheap!

Next step up is a 'proper' A/D interface that's designed for the purpose - there are a few around in the low $100's price range and in my experience they do a pretty good job.  Personally, I run a (very old) Tascam US122 in to guitar rig and get on just fine with around 9ms latency.  This is fine for most purposes, and the latency is not audible to my ear. 

Above that there are dedicated cards etc for several hundreds of $$ in to the thousands, and yes they do a 'better' job, but for general home studio purposes complete overkill!!  Unless you've got money to burn, in which case I'll have one too please

Have fun!  Guitar Rig is a great bit of software that has a definite place in my studio.  It definitely has its limitations as well though, so don't expect it to replace your Boogie or Plexi plus full stack!!!

Aidan

[searoad]

i heard that ROG Condor is designed for this.

[anchovie]

A simple buffer will be fine, or any non-true-bypass pedal that buffers the signal when in bypass mode. I plug into my soundcard's line in socket, rather than mic in, as it can take signals up to 10V before clipping.

If your soundcard doesn't have an ASIO driver then it's likely that there'll be a latency of up to a second between plucking the string and hearing the note through the speakers. Not a problem though, thanks to www.asio4all.com - I've even used this on an old Pentium 3 laptop with the most basic soundcard in the world and it got the latency down to 7ms.

I've recently inherited a beast of a PC from my father-in-law when he upgraded to a laptop, and it's in a huge case with 4 drive bays. I'm never going to have 4 DVD burners, so I'm planning on building two 1/4" jacks into one of the blanking plates and buffering both of them using rail-to-rail op-amps running off the PC's +/-12V supply, with the outputs going the L and R of the soundcard's stereo line-in. I'll also be having input level pots, and switches to turn the buffers off if I'm using low-impedance sources.