Some Questions about building/building materials...

[Niandra]

Hi,

I'm new here, though I've been lurking for a few months and reading a bunch of things. Great website you've got.

I'd like to start a small business on the side with a good friend of mine, building pedals and selling them to local musicians and what not.

A couple of questions that I've got about parts and materials...

Where can I find larger quantities of NOS transistors? (OC71's, 75's, 76's & 81D's by Mullard, Valvo, etc, etc...)
I never was able to find a large supply and never understood where all these "boutique" builders look for this stuff.

Where can I go to get some nice custom enclosures made? (I mean like non-standard shapes and such)

Is the best option for finishing to learn how to do it well ourselves? We're both very artistic, but don't have experience painting pedals.
What sorts of paints/stencils do we look for when finishing a pedal, assuming we'd finish it ourselves?

Also, what is the absolute best resource for parts online, and do they do discounts when materials are bought in larger quantities?

Assuming we'd go for the standard type boxes, aside from Hammond, who is a good company? (there's one in the UK that I forget...)

Lastly, what tools will we need the most in order to get this thing really going... you know, besides a solder 

Thanks in advance, guys! Meanwhile I'm gonna' keep searching this great site!

[Niandra]

Is there anybody out there? 

There's a place in town that has some NOS mitsubishi OC76's and OC81's, but I've never seen those used in any pedals... what do you guys think?

[tehfunk]

Is there anybody out there? 

There's a place in town that has some NOS mitsubishi OC76's and OC81's, but I've never seen those used in any pedals... what do you guys think?

OC81s are used in multiple germanium fuzzes for sure, oc76s i think as well. What kind of store is this "in town" that has the particular germanium transistors you mentioned. By the way, you could do a search for those transistors. And, where do you live? 

[any]

There are numerous stores on the web that sell many of the parts you're looking for, mostly U.S. or Europe based.
So knowing where you live would definitely help, allthough most ship worldwide.
It does sound a bit like you are ramping up for a production of larger quantities in which case you could better find the
wholesale suppliers directly. So the question would also be whether your goals are commercial or hobbyist.

Cheers,

[petemoore]

Is there anybody out there?
  Yes, but I typed a few pages and deleted them all.
  I'm new here, though I've been lurking for a few months and reading a bunch of things. Great website you've got.
  'We' have,,welcome !

I'd like to start a small business on the side with a good friend of mine, building pedals and selling them to local musicians and what not. Lets see...there have been posts about this kind of thing, I would read up on everyone who has thought this through, tried it, and failed, simply because there seems to be a fair amount of competition and pitfalls, you have found a 'niche'..as in 'local' which, if you are a good tweeker IMO puts you at:
  Advantage for someone who truly wants and has the resources to get a tweeked over rig, to a local who needs and wants a tweeked 9v distorter or some basic advice etc. that puts you at an advantage over online or not so local.
  Disadvantage because you are limited to local customers.
A couple of questions that I've got about parts and materials...
  I should think so...
  Where can I find larger quantities of NOS transistors? (OC71's, 75's, 76's & 81D's by Mullard, Valvo, etc, etc...)
  The simples answer is yes, or no, or YMMV, and note that some' batches of GE transistors may;' have been 'picked over', understanding Germanium Transistors...well you look for leakage per device, that means...you may be at a disadvantage as far as transistor acquisition compared to someone who has acquired large batches of Ge's which tend to test good.
I never was able to find a large supply and never understood where all these "boutique" builders look for this stuff.  Some of them might be happy to keep it that way.

Where can I go to get some nice custom enclosures made? (I mean like non-standard shapes and such)
  I would start at the 'enclosure selling stores', then source your stuff for you.
Is the best option for finishing to learn how to do it well ourselves?
  RG explains it better, check out GEO...perhaps he'll type it again, it was an analogy to the ever so perfect English Palace Gardens grass lawns, how to get exactly that, just prepare the soil, plant the seed, and roll it out for 200 years.
  We're both very artistic, but don't have experience painting pedals.
  THere are some fantastic tutorials and threads describing a wide variety of finishing options, Get some good paint, test on glossy, sandable primered and lightly sanded cardboard.
What sorts of paints/stencils do we look for when finishing a pedal, assuming we'd finish it ourselves?  
  Auto Paint. Shop for fancy products from the coatings industries.
Also, what is the absolute best resource for parts online, and do they do discounts when materials are bought in larger quantities?
  The one that pans out ok for you, that may sound over-simplified, read the reviews.
  Assuming we'd go for the standard type boxes, aside from Hammond, who is a good company? (there's one in the UK that I forget...)
  It's alot like the paint, the materials, and the parts...I'll start checking sources as soon as I find my source checking workboots !
  Lastly, what tools will we need the most in order to get this thing really going... you know, besides a solder 
  Get at least one of every type, take back the ones you find you don't use, I prefer to have 2 or more VSR drills at least, your mileage may vary, widely [my attempt at humor], choose your tools wisely, the guy who dies with the best tool selection wins.. 
  Meanwhile I'm gonna' keep searching this great site!
  This is by far the best advice anyone could possibly give your for assisting you with your endeavor, good luck, you will learn very much !
  I see your main advantage at this time as being 'local', allowing personal 'one on one with rig present'
type tweeking service...'you play the axe, I'll twiddle the knobs and values'...
 

[MikeH]

Just buy them in small quantities and sell your pedals for double what they're worth. That's what everyone else does... 

[Niandra]

Thanks very much, guys, for the GREAT info! wow, I'm surprised to see you guys spent so much time replying! means alot to me!

FYI, I live in Toronto and the shop I speak of is called "Active Surplus"...

Yeah, I'm just looking to start out local, so it's not really a business thing, but for now a hobby... Obviously it'd be a business in the sense that the locals wanting one of my pedals would buy the pedal(s), but other than that, not really. That doesn't make sense, does it?

I'm in university, so this is a thing on the side I'd do as I just love pedals and building/desiging stuff (though mostly non-electronic 'till now)

I've started searching around and asking for good reliable NOS transistor sources and I just can't seem to get a straight answer out of anyone. Odd.
It's funny, seeing as there are MILLIONS of these things sitting around, most not in use, and there's such a secrecy behind them with regards to builders not wanting to tell anyone their source, etc... I asked a big name builder if he'd be able to tell me and he simply said "no, but I've got $50,000 in NOS transistors sitting around and am looking for more, so if you find a good source tell me". Yeah.

Anyways, thanks again, guys- I really look forward to getting something started. We'll start out with some more simple designs and move up.

[kurtlives]

Thanks very much, guys, for the GREAT info! wow, I'm surprised to see you guys spent so much time replying! means alot to me!

FYI, I live in Toronto and the shop I speak of is called "Active Surplus"...

Yeah, I'm just looking to start out local, so it's not really a business thing, but for now a hobby... Obviously it'd be a business in the sense that the locals wanting one of my pedals would buy the pedal(s), but other than that, not really. That doesn't make sense, does it?

I'm in university, so this is a thing on the side I'd do as I just love pedals and building/desiging stuff (though mostly non-electronic 'till now)

I've started searching around and asking for good reliable NOS transistor sources and I just can't seem to get a straight answer out of anyone. Odd.
It's funny, seeing as there are MILLIONS of these things sitting around, most not in use, and there's such a secrecy behind them with regards to builders not wanting to tell anyone their source, etc... I asked a big name builder if he'd be able to tell me and he simply said "no, but I've got $50,000 in NOS transistors sitting around and am looking for more, so if you find a good source tell me". Yeah.

Anyways, thanks again, guys- I really look forward to getting something started. We'll start out with some more simple designs and move up.

Electro Sonic had tropical fish not so long ago...I grabbed them all though.

They dont sell any OC or ACs there.

[Niandra]

Thanks, but that doesn't really help me, haha!
I've got a line on some NOS Mullard Tropical Fish, should I get some? They're about $0.95 each...

[Dragonfly]

Just a few words from experience...

dont try to get into this as a "business" and expect to make money

with regards to germanium transistors, expect to find 1 or 2 out of 10 useful...the rest will be too leaky

if you havent been making pedals (as you stated already...you like building stuff, but it's been "non electronic), you're in for a hard road. when you build a pedal and it doesnt work you'll need to learn to debug it. it wouldnt be fair to ask the forum members to help you debug it so that you can make money off the pedal

for non-standard enclosures, you can talk to mic farlow here on the forum, or talk to a local sheet metal company and design your own

you need a business plan... how much do you plan to invest ? whats your turnaround time ? how many can you expect to sell ? whats your profit margin, and will that pay for your time and effort ? what will set your pedals apart from the hundred other guys selling pedals on ebay ? 

learn to use the function here...most answers to just about any pedal related question can be found here

spend the time to learn about electronics...there are a whole lot of "fly by night" "boo-teek" pedal companies out there...most arent in it for the long haul, and quite honestly, most don't know much about electronics...and that cheats the customer, IMO.

Take the time to design something original. does the world really need another tubescreamer clone ?

personal opinion...be careful when asking for help when this is something you plan on profiting from...people can feel like theyre being taken advantage of

be willing to give back to the diy community

anyway, best of luck to you.

[Niandra]

Thanks.

I hope it doesn't seem that I'd be in this for the money... that's really seconday, 'cause based on your post it seems that's how I'm coming across.
I'd do it for free, just then I'd be losing money  I want to do this mainly as a hobby and get local musicians the sounds they've always wanted.
I want to do this as I myself am a tonefreak and am always looking to help others out with their tone.
money=not #1 priority.
fun+feeling of achievment while doing what I like=#1 priority

Right now I'm just trying to look around for some NOS transistors from reliable sources and also learn more and more about actually building.

How did you guys all get started/learn?

It's this site that taught me how to read schematics and what not, so I'm very thanful for that!

[petemoore]

Right now I'm just trying to look around for some NOS transistors from reliable sources and also learn more and more about actually building.
  Small Bear is a reliable source of Ge transistors.
How did you guys all get started/learn?
  Plugging stereos to AC and wiring speakers, changing batteries.
  Also, Many of us have visited GEO.
  I printed out the Austin Treble and Bass Booster article, and separate schematic and other reference data, and would pore over the texts and diagrams...then I built an RM, another RM, a FF etc. and tweeked around on them, reading all over the place searching for 'basic electronics' and 'capacitor'...
It's this site that taught me how to read schematics and what not, so I'm very thanful for that!
  One of the best things for learning is reading, and learning this hobby is a choice example of that.

[Dragonfly]

Sorry, I'm just trying to show some realistic concerns...its a GREAT hobby...there are a lot of people who try to start doing it as a business and quickly become disenchanted though...

anyway, I got into it after 20 or so years of building / working on guitars...i just started tinkering with things...my Dad was an electrical engineer, so that helped...eventually i found this site and the addiction was born !