Second Fuzz Face build - opinions needed

axg20202 · May 01, 2008, 10:45:37 AM

Ages ago I built a Fuzz Face clone using the Fuzz Central layout and I love it. Of the many pedals I have, it's the one I feel forms the basis for my regular sound - plus my amp, of course. I like the Fuzz Face so much I want to build another, but I want to build the "one Fuzz Face to rule them all".

I don't want complex - you can keep your Fuzz Factory thanks - I want to play my guitar, not the pedal. I just want to make a Fuzz Face with as much mojo and snake oil as is humanly possible to add. :-)

So...if I was going to build a germanium Fuzz Face circuit....what is the 'best' layout, 'best' components to use and the 'best' options in terms of component value tweaks or additions to the circuit (in cap, out cap, Fuller mods, Roger Mayer 'hendrix' mods, etc etc).

I would like to get all my components from SmallBear seeing as I'll be getting the trannies from him anyway, but I'm willing to chase mojo on this one build, for a change. Cost is not a factor either.

I know, one man's 'best' is another man's 'crap-est', so please don't flame me for asking such a subjective question. Opinions are all I'm after. What would be great is if we could have a discussion of all the options when building a germaniun FF clone, with pros and cons for each option.

FYI, I have read and understand RG's excellent "Technology of the FF" article.

(An obvious question would be "what don't you like about the Fuzz Face you have?" - the answer: nothing really. I just think there's a chance it could be better and if not, so be it, but I want to start from scratch rather than continue to mod my existing FF clone).

foxfire · May 01, 2008, 10:59:28 AM

get in touch with Dragonfly. send him a pm. he'll get you squared away. rylan

axg20202 · May 01, 2008, 11:03:31 AM

Cool. I'll give Dragonfly the opportunity to chime in here, for the benefit of all, before PM'ing him though.

Dragonfly · May 01, 2008, 04:05:46 PM

The mods that I find useful for FF (without being "crazy" mods) are....

fuller variable input (lug 3 from switch, lug 2 to effect in, lug 1 n.c.
gagan blend
bias (4k7 fixed resistor with a 5k-10k lin pot)

if you add those to the volume and fuzz knobs, that gives you a 5 knob fuzz thats extremely useful with different types of guitar and amp setups.

foxfire · May 01, 2008, 04:10:11 PM

Quote from: axg20202 on May 01, 2008, 11:03:31 AM
Cool. I'll give Dragonfly the opportunity to chime in here, for the benefit of all, before PM'ing him though.

he has a lot of mojo and, sometimes it's for sale.

tcobretti · May 01, 2008, 04:44:11 PM

Dude, I know it's not Ge, but I seriously recommend you just build an Axis Face. Phillip from Fuzzcentral has already done all the work for you, and it will sound magical.

Make sure you play with the position of the volume pot because it has a huge effect on the tone of the pedal. Start all the way down and work upward in small increments.

roknjohn · May 01, 2008, 06:34:20 PM

I agree with tcobretti. The Axis Face sounds damn good (as close to Ge as I think is possible) and the transistors aren't hard to get or as pricey. No problems with drift due to temperature changes. I built one as a backup to my Ge Fuzz Face and find myself using it more than the Ge.

Roknjohn

gigimarga · May 01, 2008, 07:25:38 PM

Hello,

I've just finished a Jade Fuzz (Fuzz Face based...) from commonsound (http://www.commonsound.com/kits/doku.php?id=commonsound:fuzz) using the layout from fuzzcentral (http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/pcbs/fuzzjadepcb.gif, http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/pcbs/fuzzjadelayout.gif) and it's FABULOUS!!!

The tone control is FANTASTIC and the fuzz cleans VERY WELL with the volume pot of the guitar!

You can give it a try...you won't waste more than 30-45 minutes...

gigimarga · May 01, 2008, 07:26:48 PM

Excuse me...the name of it is Fuzz Jade, not Jade Fuzz

axg20202 · May 02, 2008, 02:14:09 AM

Good points guys. I should probably eliminate Si and hybrid Si/Ge circuits in my quest. The thing about the Ge FF I have is that it sounds so 'organic', which is not something I would say about the BMP for example (I know, apples and oranges). I was under the impression that Si fuzz circuits are less bloomey and more brittle or 'clinical' sounding than Ge circuits - they're too 'perfect'.

Help me out here guys. I had pretty much settled on Ge FF circuit with some tweaks (and some fancy components), but now Si is another question. Decisions, decisions!

gigimarga · May 02, 2008, 02:45:43 AM

There thousands of words to write on this topic

I am a big fan of FF...i've built over 20 variants of it (all for me)...but after many ours of experiments i agree "almost" totally with dragonfly: two mods are very useful: ...gagan's blend and bias...many of other mods are strange (i've built a skyripper too...it was too strange for my taste...but it can be the source of many good ideas)!!!

What you like is the most important...the guitar/amp has a lot of influence too...personally i like the combinations Si FF+clean channel and Ge FF+little distored channel...and a treble booster after...most i like to put after the Frequency Brightener (a very underrated effect in my opinion) or Rangemaster...i've built two Rangermasters, one with positive ground and one with negative ground so i've included in the same box FF+RM.

Good luck!

Der Groovemeister · May 02, 2008, 06:57:45 AM

Quote from: Dragonfly on May 01, 2008, 04:05:46 PM
The mods that I find useful for FF (without being "crazy" mods) are....

fuller variable input (lug 3 from switch, lug 2 to effect in, lug 1 n.c.
gagan blend
bias (4k7 fixed resistor with a 5k-10k lin pot)

if you add those to the volume and fuzz knobs, that gives you a 5 knob fuzz thats extremely useful with different types of guitar and amp setups.

Can you please explain a bit more how to implement the gagan blend? Where do i connect it? I already have the Fuller variable input (I built the Fuller-version FF).
Thanks.

danielzink · May 02, 2008, 07:27:21 AM

QuoteCan you please explain a bit more how to implement the gagan blend? Where do i connect it? I already have the Fuller variable input (I built the Fuller-version FF).
Thanks.

Not trying to be a jerk......but...........in the future

The search function up at the top of this page is quite useful.

Just to show I mean no harm - I did the search for you and here's the link.

http://generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/ezface_blend_cap.jpg

Dan

Der Groovemeister · May 02, 2008, 07:38:03 AM

Quote from: danielzink on May 02, 2008, 07:27:21 AM
QuoteCan you please explain a bit more how to implement the gagan blend? Where do i connect it? I already have the Fuller variable input (I built the Fuller-version FF).
Thanks.

Not trying to be a jerk......but...........in the future

The search function up at the top of this page is quite useful.

Just to show I mean no harm - I did the search for you and here's the link.

http://generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/ezface_blend_cap.jpg

Dan

I'm sorry!

I did that, but read it too quickly and didn't see it. Didn't get much sleep last night

Thanks.

axg20202 · May 02, 2008, 08:03:36 AM

Well folks, I've been doing some digging using the search function myself. Upshot: I'm going to build a new standard Ge FF with the Fuller variable input (this is the 'smooth' control, correct?) and other mods suggested by Dragonly, but I'm also going to build the Axis Face Si (stock to begin with i.e. as per the Fuzzcentral schemo).

For the Ge FF, I'm still no closer to deciding which of the various component value choices I should start off with. I guess I'm going to have to go for a fully socketed board and do this the long way. :-)

Thanks.

Dragonfly · May 02, 2008, 11:25:45 AM

Quote from: axg20202 on May 02, 2008, 08:03:36 AM

For the Ge FF, I'm still no closer to deciding which of the various component value choices I should start off with. I guess I'm going to have to go for a fully socketed board and do this the long way. :-)

Thanks.

Not quite sure that I'm following when you talk about "component value choices", since theyre all spelled out in the various mods I mentioned.

See the "Fuller input mod" for the value on the pot...I believe it's in the "Technology of the Fuzz Face" article on www.geofex.com

see the "EZ Face" for the Gagan blend mod...it has the values...

I listed the values for the bias pot

other than that, everything else is stock.

Personal preference however...I like to use a 820 ohm - 1K resistor instead of the 470 ohm...gives more output. I like the 820 because it has more output without having too much midrange push.

Hope this helps...

axg20202 · May 02, 2008, 12:41:57 PM

My mistake, I meant 'component TYPE choice' this time. I was planning on using the Panasonic low voltage poly caps from SmallBear where I can, and also want to try out some non-polarised caps (poly or NP electro) for the input cap. Is there any mojo to be had in selecting different cap types for the FF in general or is it not worth worrying about? I did consider using the orange drops SB sells - it's not like it'd cost much more - but they'd be huge at 600V ratings right? Any suggestions/recommendations?

Good to know re the 470R/1K mod. My current Ge FF has a 1K in this position. I don't really see the value of Fuller's mod in this area (adding a 1K pot in series with the stock 470R) - seems like just another volume control with a bit of mid increase. If I included this mod I'd end up with 3 volume-like controls: the Fuller pregain 'Smooth' control, the main gain control and this 1k level/mid - overkill IMO. I'll socket this and try your 820R value.

I'll also give the Gagan input cap blend pot a try.

Going back to component VALUES, I only use single coil guitars - will this effect how I implement the 'smooth' pregain mod and Gagan cap blend mod?

Thanks.

axg20202 · May 09, 2008, 08:12:31 AM

Sorry to revive this old thread.

I have a quick question re the Germanium FF I'm about to build.

I am planning to include a 250K pre-gain pot and an input cap blend pot, both as per the Easy Face. Question is, should I omit the 1K Fuzz pot and replace it with a fixed 1K (also as per the Easy Face) or is it worth retaining the Fuzz pot?

I will try both whatever, but would value people's opinions on this. I'm guessing that the 250K will be like rolling off the guitar volume, meaning the Fuzz put becomes redundant at anything but 100%.......

Thanks,

Andy.

MartyMart · May 09, 2008, 09:38:20 AM

Andy, I was a bit of a "Fuzz nut" a couple of years ago and built pretty much EVERYTHING that's
out there !!
The changes and additions mentioned are well worth doing and one of the best "straight" FF's I built
was the one with the Roger Mayer mods, Andy has suggested the changes for output level boost and
these are from the Mayer FF.
I also recommend getting a 1k reverse audio pot from smallbear - you won't regret that as the fuzz
changes will be a much better range.

Good luck,
Marty.

axg20202 · May 09, 2008, 10:16:04 AM

Thanks Marty. Yep, already ordered said pot from SB, currently on its way over the pond to Blighty. I also ordered the 'All american' tranny set this time. Mmm, American trannies (stop sniggering at the back, Smith)

Any thoughts on the pregain control and whether or not it makes the 1K fuzz control redundant?

I've created a new PCB layout for this build which has trim pots for both collector resistors and allows for the input cap blend control too. I may as well have a layout that also easily allows for a fixed 1K fuzz resistor on board if required, but I don't want to rejig it if the general view is that this should be a pot even with the pregain control.

(I know, I should breadboard fuzz circuits.....)

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Second Fuzz Face build - opinions needed