If we could design our own wah casing, what would we design in?

[Zedmin_fx]

ah Germany

Sorry to go off topic but anyone in NA have one?

ok so it was smallbear that has it. part number  2614 good luck

[John Lyons]

all this talk about wah pots, PICs, Probes, etc forgets one thing...

Mic isn't making a wah...he's only making an enclosure that could be used to make a wah....or a fuzz...or tremolo...or phaser...etc, etc, etc....

It makes for great discussion and idea sharing, but is beyond the realm of what Mic is looking to do. The only reason (I assume) he is asking about pots is so that he can get the angles and the attachments correct so that a pot can be used to control whatever the shell is chosen for.

IMO this type of discussion would be better in a separate thread...it will make it easier to find / search for in the future.

Mick is actually working on redoing the mechanism as well. Last I spoke with him at least.
I beleive he was thinking of making a pully type system for one or 2, 3 pots.
I'll let him explain what he's working on.
Personally I'd like to see a classic (rack and pinion) wah mechanism with mick's twist on enclosure curves and top facing pot panel.
But we'll see what he comes up with.

John

[MicFarlow77]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the posts. I appreciate them all.

Currently, I am open to all the possible options that people may want to include. I'm not necessarily going to do them, but rather try to come up with a design that you can tweak with common tools to do whatever it is you please with it.

I am currently investigating a radically different way of doing the whole pot system so that it can be tweaked to the hilt. I like the possibility of these other idea's but I would imagine that most of us will end up using pots because there are so many to choose from, our circuits already include them and they are readily available.

Mic isn't making a wah...he's only making an enclosure that could be used to make a wah....or a fuzz...or tremolo...or phaser...etc, etc, etc....

or a rocker type mechanism that could be used to cross fade between two amps... two different distortion boxes.. two different loops, two different almost anythings..... or a 2, 3 or 4 channel volume pedal similar to the Morley, but with any pot value or taper you could get the pinion onto....

I am sure I am only thinking of the tip of the iceberg here....

Also Jason, Thanks a ton for the pictures, I really appreciate it! I am also glad the sandpaper tip helped!

Thanks again for all the suggestions!

Mick

[Paul Marossy]

FWIW, the DOD FX-17 has the smoothest action of any of the wah or volume pedals I have tried - no pots being rotated by a rack & pinion gear, nor a slider pot. Ernie Ball comes in 2nd, CryBaby wahs come in 3rd and the Maestro Boomerang has the roughest feel of them all.

[MicFarlow77]

FWIW, the DOD FX-17 has the smoothest action of any of the wah or volume pedals I have tried - no pots being rotated by a rack & pinion gear, nor a slider pot. Ernie Ball comes in 2nd, CryBaby wahs come in 3rd and the Maestro Boomerang has the roughest feel of them all.

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the heads up on this.. I will take a look at the DOD and see what kind of technology they use....

Mick

[Fuzzy-Train]

Check Paul's site:

http://www.diyguitarist.com/DIYStompboxes/FX-17.htm

Completely different method than any other treadle pedal I've seen. Looks very cool!

[Dragonfly]

Well...then you might want to look into "Hall Effect Sensors" !

[Fuzzy-Train]

IS that what the DOD basically is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor

[Paul Marossy]

I once thought that the DOD FX-17 used a hall effect sensor, but I remember a few forum members here telling that's not what it uses to do its thing.

I still don't quite understand how it really works, but I think the easiest way to explain it is that "the 4007 shown on the left side of the schematic is a HF-oscillator based "proximity control", together with the MPS4124 and the other half of the LM358 dual opamp which provides a "distance to voltage converter", that feeds a VCA (Voltage Controlled Amplifier) and a VCF (Voltage Controlled Filter). The LM3080 is the VCA and the 13600 creates two voltage controlled low pass filters which are connected in series. This comprises a state variable bandpass filter and is responsible for the wah portion of the circuit." (quoted from my webpage on it)

The volume pedal side is basically doing the same thing as Anderton's "Volume Pedal Descratcher" circuit - it uses an OTA (Operational Transconductance Amplifier) to vary the volume.

[MicFarlow77]

Hi All,

Many Thanks for all the posts.

Quick update... I think I have settled on the style of mechanisim to move the wah pots. It's a simple moving rack type system that if I can do it correctly, will allow for incredible flexibility in the travel and number of pots. It should be scalable as well, so that you can get a simpler ssetup with less cash outlay and if you want the max, it will cost a little more.

I finally found some good small pulleys. Hard to believe it took 3-4 days of looking for small form factor plleys that were affordable enough to design in this casing and still try to make a price point that we could all deal with.

I decided to go this route rather than the DOD type route as I am not setup machine-wise to do that sort of work. I like the concept, but just can't produce it right now.

I will try to order the parts tomorrow for the prototype and we will see how it goes.

Again, Many Thanks to this community for all your suggestions. I hope I get get a good, dependable, flexible and affordable enclosure that will serve a great many needs!

Mick

[carrejans]

Looking forward to your prototype.

[John Lyons]

+1!

john

[MicFarlow77]

Hi All,

I need some help!

I am getting some additional details down from this casing and I came across an issue that I had not thought of before. John Lyons was so kind as to send me his CryBaby casing to get some ideas and measurements from. Thanks John, I appreciate it more than you can ever know!

While getting down to brass tacks, I realized that the threaded part of the shaft size on the hotpotz is larger than what is on my 16mm and 24mm Alpha pots, even though the actual pot shaft is still 1/4 inch.

To that end, I would like to know which version to shoot for? May not be a big deal either way, but if I create a bracket that will just, and I mean just barely clear a hotpotz shaft it will just, and I mean just barely fit a standard 24mm or 16mm Alpha. I am concerned that under heavy use, the Alpha style pots may have a tendency to work loose.... We can probably get around it with washers or some such but it is a concern regardless. I'd hate to get a bunch of enclosures out there and have them not be good over the long haul.

Along this line, does anyone also know if the Dunlop pinion that Steve sells at SmallBear will work well on the Alpha D Shaft pots or are hotpotz the only way to go?

Many Thanks in advance!

Mick

EDIT... After thought before I head off to sleep.... If not using hotpotz, what will you be using. For example, what about using my casing as an expression pedal for the ADA or the UniVibe? Or a swell or volume pedal.... I kinda assumed that we would be able to use the Alpha D Shafts, but according to Mouser, they are 6mm shaft sized, which is about .013 too small according to my calipers anyway... just something else to throw into the mix....

[jasonsmusicgear]

I think it definitely needs to be big enough to fit a HotPotz.  But it would also be really nice to be able to use the alpha pots just because they are much cheaper and I have a lot on hand.  I think using washers will be ok for those who want to use alpha pots. 

Jason

[Paul Marossy]

Maybe there's a way to make a removable plate inside that would allow for a pot with a smaller threaded portion? Or maybe an either/or type of plate? Just a thought...

[any]

While getting down to brass tacks, I realized that the threaded part of the shaft size on the hotpotz is larger than what is on my 16mm and 24mm Alpha pots, even though the actual pot shaft is still 1/4 inch.

You could also think about making a tapered slot for the pot, the standard wah pot would slot a little over half way with a
narrower slot going down a bit further for the alpha pots. This wouldn't really matter in the rack/pinion movement as it is still in line.

Also, the actual reason I wanted to reply was because I've got an old foxx wah shell (the ones foxx used on the foot phaser and such.)
What I Really like about these shells is the fact that they have a raised area behind the toe, just wide enough to fit a footswitch.
(or if you like some extra knobs...) They also have a brass pinion wheel which is fixed with a grub-screw, making it possible to to use
absolutely any pot you might have!

In it's self two awesome features that would be interesting to see in "not just another cry baby" shell.

Cheers

PS: found a pic showing the model:

[Paul Marossy]

I've got an old foxx wah shell (the ones foxx used on the foot phaser and such.)
What I Really like about these shells is the fact that they have a raised area behind the toe, just wide enough to fit a footswitch.

The Maestro Boomerangs were the first pedal to use that enclosure that those Foxx pedals used later. It was originally patented by DeArmond in 1958. They're very bulky, but you could put a BIG circuitboard in them.

[John Lyons]

Mick
I'd go with the 3/8 bushing size on the hotpotz and most other wah and full size pots.
A smaller pot most likely won't hold up to the wah torture test. Plus, the elements inside alpha type pots wear out quicker that than actual wah pots which are more rugged and rated for more power...thicker conductive trace inside etc etc.
You gotta figure it gets a lot more rotation back and fourth, and by foot...at a faster rate.

john

[MicFarlow77]

Thanks guys for the posts. Any, I like the tapered slot idea.. something to experiment with.

John, I also see your points.

I am moving closer to building the prototype but work this week has been a bear and next week may be worse... It's one of those times where work is really biting into my hobbies... I hate when that happens... :-)

I am also ordering some rack on Monday for some additional experimentation. Will keep you posted.

Thank's All!

Mick

[MicFarlow77]

Hi All,

I was able to start transferring ideas that are on paper into some actual metal!

Here is a picture of the outside and the paddle:


Here is a pic that gives an idea of what it will be like once I get the paddle mounted:


Here is a gut shot... and yes, it will easily hold an ADA board... as evidenced here with my half populated one:


Couple of things to bear in mind:

Right now, for prototyping reasons, there is no bottom and the top is removable. The finished enclosures will of course have a full bottom and the top will be welded and brazed in for strength.

I am also working on the paddle attachment and then, once it is attached, then I will need to do all the work necessary to get the rack attached and pot and switch placement.

If all goes well, I'd like to have a working prototype by the end of the Memorial Day Weekend!

Thanks all for your patience and as always, I am eager to hear your comments on progress so far!

Thanks,

Mick