If we could design our own wah casing, what would we design in?

[MicFarlow77]

Hi All,

I had a request for some custom work and it required me to redo my bending rig. In doing so, I have increased the capacity of the material I am able to work with. To that end, I think it may now be possible for me to design and fabricate a fully functional Wah enclosure that could incorporate the design elements that are most desirable.

Along those lines, I need input from this community. Here are some of the guidelines that I am starting with:

Wah casing itself built with .125 sides, .080 top and bottom and the foot paddle out of .250. (All aluminum of course.... :-)

I am thinking that as of now, I could make the top and bottom both removeable, but that is not set in stone.

Of course, I'd be designing all the brackets and mounting stuff needed for the footswitch and the pot. No issues there at all.

Things I do not know about for sure:

1) How much foot travel in terms of degrees. In some preliminary drawings, I was thinking between 10 and 15 degrees, but I am not sure... I do not have a wah to compare against. What is common along these lines?

2) I know that some wahs do not make full use of pot travel, but I want a design that makes the most of it, so how many degrees of turn will we need and mechanically, what are the best options. I know the normal rack and pinion system has fallen short, but not sure if that can be modified to make up the difference or will we need another approach. I was wondering if maybe using an additional gear or so to leverage gear ratios to make full use of pot travel, but I do not know how many teeth per inch the current rack and pinion system uses. If someone can provide the tpi info on the current rack and pinion system, I can investigate options here....

3) I was initially looking at footprint of the entire casing of about 3.5 x 10 (with my trademark rounded corners) with a slope from front to back of about 4 degrees and having the foot paddle be about 3 x 9 inches or so. Again, these are not set in stone.

4) Should we allow adequate shoulder room for top mounted pots and switches?

5) A wild suggestion here... should we allow for the possibility of spring loading the foot paddle? If the heel is under spring pressure, it will keep the toe pulled up, so pushing down only requires overcoming the spring tension... I'm not thinking in radical terms here, but more along the lines of "Power Assisted"... something to think about... the good thing is that the design could accommodate it, regardless of whether you used it or not.

6) Another radical option... a split foot paddle. Not sure if it would be something you could use, but it is something I can build. Would it be an option to have a split in the paddle so that you can maybe set the notch with one side and wah with the other? Volume on one side and wah on the other? Two volume pedals in one casing? Two differently voiced wah pedals in one enclosure running in parallel? Go crazy here... or is it even worth thinking about?

7) I am also looking at making this enclosure to have the ability to easily side up to my very large enclosures so that you could fasten the wah casing to the side of the large one to have an integrated system. Again, this would be an optional deal, with the entire casing design able to stand alone easily as well.

I am pretty sure I am missing something so any additional input is appreciated. I may not be able to implement all suggestions, but can certainly try.

Many Thanks,

Mick

[Nasse]

http://filters.muziq.be/model/mica/wauwaufuzz Dunno much answers but this was sheet metal work and had two pots and two stompswitches plus usual wah pot and on off switch under the pedal

[tiges_ tendres]

I think the reason most wahs dont use the whole travel of the pot is because it can damage the pot.  It's a fine line between utilising the whole travel of the pot, and putting too much pressure on the most used and weakest (from a damage perspective) part of a mechanical system.

I for one would love to see what you can come up with.  I think this is the final diy frontier for cases!  Our options have always been limited to gutting and old wah, or getting funky with sewing machine treddles!  (More recently we have the small bear option too)

Best of luck to you in this!!  If you can keep the price under $40, I think you might have a winner.


As a side note, it has always been my dream to make an auto wah with a regular wah pedal.  But by using a motor to make the wah move at a set up and down ratio.  If I could achieve this by using steam power, that would make me even happier!

[MicFarlow77]

http://filters.muziq.be/model/mica/wauwaufuzz Dunno much answers but this was sheet metal work and had two pots and two stompswitches plus usual wah pot and on off switch under the pedal

Hey Nasse,

Actually looks like to me that the base of that one is cast but it's hard to know for sure without actually looking from the inside.

I do see potential though in making the heel end that much narrower than the toe... makes it easier to get pots and switches on the case without having to make the whole casing really really wide.

Thanks for the post.

I think the reason most wahs dont use the whole travel of the pot is because it can damage the pot.  It's a fine line between utilising the whole travel of the pot, and putting too much pressure on the most used and weakest (from a damage perspective) part of a mechanical system.

I for one would love to see what you can come up with.  I think this is the final diy frontier for cases!  Our options have always been limited to gutting and old wah, or getting funky with sewing machine treddles!  (More recently we have the small bear option too)

Best of luck to you in this!!  If you can keep the price under $40, I think you might have a winner.


As a side note, it has always been my dream to make an auto wah with a regular wah pedal.  But by using a motor to make the wah move at a set up and down ratio.  If I could achieve this by using steam power, that would make me even happier!

Noted issue on the pot being the weakest link in the mechanical chain. Calibration and the ability to calibrate over a wide range would be key to maximizing the pot use. What I was wondering is if I could use the existing pinion and rack system but find an additional gear that would allow for some tweakability if we were to try to use gear ratios to our advantage.... still not sure that would work.. another option would be to use a cam and lever type system that I have seen around but that may or may not work as well... got to play around with some stuff...

As for price... I'm no where near being able to even estimate that.

Thanks,

Mick

[John Lyons]

Mick

You are a maniac for taking this on! In a good way of course. This is a great thing!

Some ideas would be:
To make the treadle travel variable.
A screw under the treadle with a rubber pad that can be adjusted would work I think. Micro adjust/ calibration!!
The travel would have to be limited so you don't tear up the pot once the full travel is reached (as mentioned in the post above). With some care you could adjust the screw so the pot doesn't quite travel all the way saving the pot from being over torqued.

You could have a screw at the heal as well to set the heel down limit.
Actually, now that I think about it you could just have the screws come up out of the base of the wah shell instead of the treadle, might be easier... The screw and rubber pad would contact the treadle bottom setting the travel limit.

As far as the teeth per inch etc. You may need to make a new rack because the typical ones I don't think will be long enough. With the heel down in most wahs the rack runs just off the pinion. Shouldn't be too hard to do this though.

Pots are easily mounted on the sides of a wah but top mounted would be pretty cool. Maybe just enough room for a small knob row on the right. 16mm pot is pretty small.

Spring loading seems cool but you would have to have some sort of a soft touch switch to turn on the unit when you step down, I guess it depends on the application.

The split treadle seems cool but I'd keep it simple and make a single unit for now. If it was split it would be best as a full size dual I think.

At any rate, this is good stuff mick, thanks for taking this on.

John

[kurtlives]

I think this is great that you are trying this.

All I would want it a wah with a bit more sweep than stock Vox/Dunlop ones. Also cost, I cant spend $41 on a wah shell at Smallbear.

[MicFarlow77]

Mick

You are a maniac for taking this on! In a good way of course. This is a great thing!

Some ideas would be:
To make the treadle travel variable.
A screw under the treadle with a rubber pad that can be adjusted would work I think. Micro adjust/ calibration!!
The travel would have to be limited so you don't tear up the pot once the full travel is reached (as mentioned in the post above). With some care you could adjust the screw so the pot doesn't quite travel all the way saving the pot from being over torqued.

You could have a screw at the heal as well to set the heel down limit.
Actually, now that I think about it you could just have the screws come up out of the base of the wah shell instead of the treadle, might be easier... The screw and rubber pad would contact the treadle bottom setting the travel limit.

As far as the teeth per inch etc. You may need to make a new rack because the typical ones I don't think will be long enough. With the heel down in most wahs the rack runs just off the pinion. Shouldn't be too hard to do this though.

Pots are easily mounted on the sides of a wah but top mounted would be pretty cool. Maybe just enough room for a small knob row on the right. 16mm pot is pretty small.

Spring loading seems cool but you would have to have some sort of a soft touch switch to turn on the unit when you step down, I guess it depends on the application.

The split treadle seems cool but I'd keep it simple and make a single unit for now. If it was split it would be best as a full size dual I think.

At any rate, this is good stuff mick, thanks for taking this on.

John

Thanks for the comments John and kurtlives.

Yeah John, there are tons of options that are easy enough to implement for making adjustments and calibrations as needed.

The trick for me is maximizing the pot travel without increasing wear on the pot, or inducing injury... That is where the first law of DIY comes in... First do no harm....

I'm still thinking on some options... might try to post some prelim drawings in the next couple of days....

Thanks,

Mick

[Dragonfly]

Seems like this would be the "economical" way to make a wah shell....



Also, it would be cool to have a little "outcropping" on the side that you could put an extra switch on...have footswitchable fuzz=wah, or use the switch to change between wah and tremolo, etc, etc....

[iaresee]

It would be in a VP Jr. enclosure. Like the new EB Wha. I absolutely love the travel and the feel of an Ernie Ball volume pedal. It turns riding your volume into surfing the volume.

[DiamondDog]

It's only a little thing, but since you asked-

6 screws holding the baseplate on.

I like a little bit more angle on my wah so that it- as in the whole pedal, not just the treadle- is higher than normal at the toe , and higher on the right. It may only me 5mm front to back, and 5mm left to right, but it makes a lot of difference to me.

Adjusting that angle so far has been as simple as a longer travel for longer screws that have higher feet. But if there were two more screws holding on the baseplate, it makes it so much more workable.

Also, two pots- for me, rotary switch for capacitors, and volume knob off the output buffer.

ALSO

Fox Foot Phaser is a good design to me. Not that we copy anything, of course...

[MicFarlow77]

Seems like this would be the "economical" way to make a wah shell....

Also, it would be cool to have a little "outcropping" on the side that you could put an extra switch on...have footswitchable fuzz=wah, or use the switch to change between wah and tremolo, etc, etc....

Hey AC,

I really like the way the treadle there is done but sadly, I do not have the ability to bend my metal in that manner.. I'd need a different style break. Also, 'ditto' on the outcropping.. I got some plans along those lines.

It would be in a VP Jr. enclosure. Like the new EB Wha. I absolutely love the travel and the feel of an Ernie Ball volume pedal. It turns riding your volume into surfing the volume.

I really like this design as well... EB actually uses a pulley system for turning the pot.. something to investigate

It's only a little thing, but since you asked-

6 screws holding the baseplate on.

I like a little bit more angle on my wah so that it- as in the whole pedal, not just the treadle- is higher than normal at the toe , and higher on the right. It may only me 5mm front to back, and 5mm left to right, but it makes a lot of difference to me.

Adjusting that angle so far has been as simple as a longer travel for longer screws that have higher feet. But if there were two more screws holding on the baseplate, it makes it so much more workable.

Also, two pots- for me, rotary switch for capacitors, and volume knob off the output buffer.

ALSO

Fox Foot Phaser is a good design to me. Not that we copy anything, of course...

6 screws to hold the bottom plate on probably won't be a problem.

Also, my intent is to incorporate enough of a shoulder on this shell to accommodate pot's and switches.

Thanks All for your suggestions.. I really appreciate them.

Mick

[Dragonfly]

Seems like this would be the "economical" way to make a wah shell....

Also, it would be cool to have a little "outcropping" on the side that you could put an extra switch on...have footswitchable fuzz=wah, or use the switch to change between wah and tremolo, etc, etc....

Hey AC,

I really like the way the treadle there is done but sadly, I do not have the ability to bend my metal in that manner.. I'd need a different style break. Also, 'ditto' on the outcropping.. I got some plans along those lines.

Mick

Yep...the little "outcropping" would only need to be large enough for a switch and a LED IMO. Any other switches / pots could be put on the side of the pedal like a traditional fuzz-wah

btw...IMO, if you make the "right" features, and make it different from whats currently available, then price won't be nearly as much of an issue.

[Dragonfly]

Something like this....bad "drawing", but you get the idea...


Oh...and I would make it "tall" enough on the sides to use one of the slide in battery trays ( http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=137 )

[MicFarlow77]

Seems like this would be the "economical" way to make a wah shell....

Also, it would be cool to have a little "outcropping" on the side that you could put an extra switch on...have footswitchable fuzz=wah, or use the switch to change between wah and tremolo, etc, etc....

Hey AC,

I really like the way the treadle there is done but sadly, I do not have the ability to bend my metal in that manner.. I'd need a different style break. Also, 'ditto' on the outcropping.. I got some plans along those lines.

Mick

Yep...the little "outcropping" would only need to be large enough for a switch and a LED IMO. Any other switches / pots could be put on the side of the pedal like a traditional fuzz-wah

btw...IMO, if you make the "right" features, and make it different from whats currently available, then price won't be nearly as much of an issue.

Very Good Points You Make! (Said in a Yoder like manner... :-)

To follow-up on your drawing... I'm not sure I can engineer an outcropping in that manner due to the current system I use to bend the sides of my enclosures. I can only bend 'outside' corners, so the one inside corner would be tough.

However, I like the idea of having enough real estate in that area to put in an additional footswitch. I will see what I can draw up in the next day or two.

Thanks again AC for your suggestions and for the drawing. It really helped me to see what you were referring to. I hope I can engineer a system to actually do it.

+1 on the battery tray though.. do you have a dimension of one handy?

Thanks,

Mick

[Dragonfly]

+1 on the battery tray though.. do you have a dimension of one handy?

Thanks,

Mick

I'm sure Steve 2 Small Bear could give you the dimensions...after all, it would increase his sales of that part number...

[Dragonfly]

What about doing it like a "heavy duty" version of a Colorsound  wah ?


Like this....

[tehfunk]

looks like a morley to me.

[Dragonfly]

looks like a morley to me.

kind of...but thats only because its a quick drawing....basically i'm thinking a colorsound / morley type combo

[tehfunk]

so what is special about the colorsound case (advantages)?

[Dragonfly]

so what is special about the colorsound case (advantages)?

I never said there were advantages...I just like the looks and the footprint...lots of room for fuzzes, trems, etc inside...   

what i don't like about them was the thin gauge metal Colorsound used.