making layouts

[awitee]

hey guys, do you have an easy way to make layouts based on schematics, because i am having a hard time making effects that only have a schematic available.
tips and program referals will be very appreciated

[frequencycentral]

Hmmm - it's down to practice and experience. I never used a PCB so everything I've built has been done this way. I wouldn't do it any other way. For me it's part of the fun, and I get a great deal of satisfation from it.

A few tips:

Think about the bigger components first, and where you are going to place them. If it's just one I.C. put it in the centre of the board

Think about 'common' points such as +ve power rail and ground. You will be connecting a few things to those points so make them accessible. I generally use two outer strips for this purpose.

Consider the implications of each component you mount - will it 'block' access to vital points?

Maybe consider drawing it first - working from a plan is easier than not.

Start off with a layout which virtually 'mirrors' the schematic.

Build a few pretty simple circuits first - you can work up to more complex stuff once you have the experience.

Oh, and don't use stripboard - use pad-per-hole or tripad. Strip limits your options.

Hope this helps!

[idlechatterbox]

hey guys, do you have an easy way to make layouts based on schematics, because i am having a hard time making effects that only have a schematic available.
tips and program referals will be very appreciated

I might be misunderstanding your question, and what I know about pedal building could likely be written on a sugar packet, but here's a stab. When you say that you're having a hard time when all you have is the schematic, if you mean that the difficulty is knowing where to put the components on the board, how to connect to this or that... then here's a suggestion.

1. take some vero board which is at least 8 holes wide. Then, count the number of components in the entire circuit (let's say it's an easy circuit, which contains only resistors, caps, and trannies, plus assorted jacks and pots). Double that number and that's how many rows up and down you need on the vero.

2. score, scratch, gouge down the very middle column of the vero, so that you go clear through the copper strip. You've now got two separate pieces of vero, in practical terms.

3. put the components onto the board, so that their "arms" straddle the divide that you just carved. (I.e., one arm is soldered to the left side, one to the right). Each component gets a row. I usually put all the resistors first, going down the board, then the caps, and so on. But that's not important, as long as you use a perm marker and label each one.

4. now all you have to do is cross-reference on the schematic, making sure that a wire connects each arm of each component as it should be. I.e., you would determine that "the left arm of resistor 4 is connected to the right arm of cap 3...." Just snip a bunch of small wires (maybe less than an inch in some cases) and use those to connect whatever needs to be connected. This way, when you're double-checking everything, or trouble-shooting, you simply have to make a checklist whereby you make sure that nothing is shaking hands with something it shouldn't (you can visually see the wires, and where they go, so that's easy), and that nothing is not linking up as it should. And because you have 4 or 5 empty holes next to each arm, there's plenty of room for re-soldering, disconnecting, and so on.

Note: trannies obviously have 3 "arms," as do pots, but for them I just carve out a small space on the very bottom of the vero and put a socket onto the board.

Again, not saying that this is what you're looking for, but it's useful for me when I build from just a schematic. I don't find them intimidating, but I don't like the visual aspect. I prefer rows and columns and nice straight lines. A while back, Gausmarkov made some remarks about layouts, and I tried this method based on that. Never went back. I can post a photo later if you're interested.

Of course, all of this is assuming that I understood your question... if not, then sorry for making anyone read all this verbiage. 

Good luck either way

[R.G.]

Buy the book.

"PCB Layout for Musical Effects", available through Small Bear electronics.

They're currently sold out, but I happen to know that there's a fresh box of them on their way to Small Bear right now. 

[Dragonfly]

This is a subject that comes up about once a week. There are several tips to be found by using the function.

RG's book is EXCELLENT, should you wish to REALLY understand how to lay out PCB's. 

Also, on op amp based circuits, I find it easiest to place the op amp in the center and work outward. With circuits containing several op amps you can do this (almost like "little islands" ) and connect them as necessary once you've built the components around each op amp.

[tranceracer]

+1 for RGs book.      It's a good starting point.  There's also lots of techniques for ckt transfer to Copper boards on the web and right here on this forum.
Also, lots of folks use Eagle CAD.  Here's a good link to see what Eagle can do.

http://gaussmarkov.net/wordpress/category/tools/software/eagle/

If you want to get more into electronics I really like Practical Eleteronics for Inventors by Paul Scherz.  It has the basics and also goes into some theory.  Good stuff for all levels and has some practical ckts too.  I got my copy at Borders w/ 40% discount rewards card.

-bK

[Dragonfly]

Also...check the WIKI ....thats what its there for...lots of tips in it.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/wiki/

http://www.diystompboxes.com/wiki/index.php?title=PrintedCircuitBoards

http://www.pcbdesignandfab.com/guidelines.htm

etc, etc

[soulsonic]

Anyone here use Lochmaster for drawing layouts? I know DIY Layout Creator is the most popular thing around here, but I recently purchased a copy of SPlan, so I'm quickly becoming a fan of Abacom software. I've been messing with the Lochmaster demo and it seems that I can get a much faster workflow than with DIYLC, but I'm wondering if anyone else has used Lochmaster and could maybe persuade/dissuade me from going for it. I'm also wondering about SPrint for doing PCB design. I've used Eagle a bit, but SPrint seems more intuitive.

Any other Abacom users/fans out there?

[awitee]

wow, thx for the replies guys
ill try your suggestions

[newfish]

Drew my first PCB out this weekend on graph paper.

Took the layout of Gus Smalley's "Simple Octave Up" (which sounded great on the breadboard, by the way!)

Wasn't sure what size to draw the IC, so I grabbed a socket and pushed the legs through the paper - so the size has to be right.

Caps and Resistors I wouldn't worry about the size of, as the legs are usually pretty long.

Don't forget to flip your board though - left / right : right / left, as you're using the underneath.

I ended up drawing a layout as it was from above (from left (input) to right (output)), then re-drew it with the outputs on the left.

Best advice I can give from my meagre experience?

Take your time - check *everything* twice before drawing on your board.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Take your time - check *everything* twice before drawing on your board.

Absolutely.
Take each leg on each component, and see what it connects to on the original schematic.
Then see that it connects to these points, and ONLY these points, in your layout.
Tedious? Yes.
Is it worse checking AFTER you made the board & populated it? You bet it is.

[newfish]

....and based on last night's experience...

Make sure you've got good, sensible-sized traces.

By the time I finished etching my board, the 9v and 'Ground' rails had all but disappeared.

It's all learning, right?   

[davent]

Also did the graph  paper and pencil layout method for a long time, get graph paper with a 10x10 divisions per inch to match up with the IC spacing.  Now use ExpressPCB for layouts, makes the job much easier. Easy to learn free software. Draw the schematic in the schematic half of the program then switch to the PCB side of the program select and name all your components, link this PCB to your schematic. To create your layout you click on a component pad and all the other pads that are part of this net are highlighted so you know where to run your traces and how best to arrange the components on the board. Working in the computer as opposed to on paper makes it so much easier to rearrange things and try different layouts. Actually one of my favorite parts of doing a new build, creating the PCB.

Take care
dave

[DougH]

Take a look at this thread: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=68367.0 I think Beavis is on to something here.

Try to think of a schematic as a mesh of "nodes". Nodes are points where connections are made between 2 or more components. The goal is to transfer these nodes from the schematic to a design of a physical layout. The end target could be PCB or perfboard, the goals are essentially the same. You can try tricks like numbering the nodes on the schematic and listing which connection from each component attaches to each node, for example.

When you think of the schematic in terms of nodes, it can help you visualize the layout more clearly.

[mike_a]

Buy the book.

"PCB Layout for Musical Effects", available through Small Bear electronics.

They're currently sold out, but I happen to know that there's a fresh box of them on their way to Small Bear right now. 

Then I've just bought one of the last few 

I'm really looking forward to digging into it.

[soulsonic]

No one else uses Abacom software?  SPlan is really great.

[newfish]

Downloaded ExpressPCB last night - and had a layout drawn in about 20 minutes - thanks for the tip-off.

Would still like to learn 'Eagle' though.

Somehow, I've ended up with my etching back to front.  Inputs are now on the Right Hand Side of the board.

Traces etc are OK though, so the circuit should work (when I've built it of course), but I *thought* I had it sussed with flipping the board before drawing.

For what it's worth, I tried a couple of different markers on the board (in the spare, empty sections) - mainly to see if a wider tipped pen could be used to fill these areas - and a CD labelling pen works - as does wax crayon (A little childish I know, but so is my day job...)

"Practicing Perspicacious Practice".