Kay Fuzz clone

[blueherdim7]

Hi everyone-

I am attempting to build a Kay Fuzz clone and I as a relative newbie to DIY, I have a few questions.  First, can anyone confirm that this schematic is correct? http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22960&g2_GALLERYSID=189a159106b2971581908e9b389e541bI see that this was redrawn by Aron, but before I order parts I wanted to see if anyone has actually used this.  Also, can someone help me with what diodes and transistors I can use?  The OA 90's (germanium)I have found as an NTE110A equivalent, but Steve at Small Bear advised my to avoid NTE if possible.  The transistors are another problem...I haven't found anything on the 2SC644S and Small Bear has 2SC828A-R but not 2SC828R.  Steve seemed to think they will work, but again advised I post here.  As for the 2SC945's, I think I have found them at Parts Express however, they have no pic to help me confirm. Any help is greatly appreciated!
Cheers.
Jon

[Gila_Crisis]

this might interest you
http://analogguru.100free.com/193/schematics/Kay_F-1_FuzzTone.gif

[Naz Nomad]

Nice ...

[blueherdim7]

The page says the file is deleted or missing.
Jon

[Gila_Crisis]

look here then
http://i31.tinypic.com/npm6ow.gif

[mac]

If those are silicons then 2n3904, bc549c or 2n5088 will work.
Reminds me the Green ringer but using transistors instead of diodes. And those clipping diodes at the output put some distortion and smooth the signal. I'm going to try it.

mac

[blueherdim7]

Thanks guys.  I did find some 2SC644, 2SC945, and 2SC828's as well as the OA 90's on ebay this morning.  Way overpriced though.  I am planning on using  1/4 watt metal film and carbon film caps.  Any reason to use 1/2 watt?  This will be my first complete build and I want to cover all bases before making my order this week.  Also, for the polyester caps, I was thinking about using Xicon high voltage (250V and 630V) for the .1, .0022, and .0047mF caps.  Any advise here?
Thanks again.
Jon

[Dragonfly]

www.futurlec.com

[8mileshigh]

Both Chris from Ottawa and myself have messed with this circuit on and off for many months and none of the schematics were correct if I recall correctly.  Unfortunately, I can't open the links here to check the schem but off the top of my head, the 100K over the octave section (Q3 and 4) should be a 10K and the 100K at the end of the circuit should be removed all together.  I used 2N5089's through out with success.  I don't know how authentic this version sounds but the fuzz and octave are simply outrageous. Before making the mods, the circuit barely worked.  Mine is still on a bread board that my cat keeps knocking on the floor so I'll eventually get myself a wah enclosure and box it up.  I have tried silicon and germanium in the circuit, the 1n914's take it over the top.

What ever you do, bread board it first.

Chris

[blueherdim7]

Thanks Chris-

I am going to use an etch design to build a pcb.  I downloaded it from ustomp a while ago.  This person made a stomp box out of it, but I am going to house it a wah case.  You can download/view it here:  http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Schematics-etc/kayfuzzbuild.pdf.html  It appears that he has already changed the 100k resistors to 10k.  I am going to play with the 200k resistor and 50k pot at the end to achieve the sweep and tone change I want.  I think I will start with a 100k pot and work from there.  From your experience, does this look functional to you?  Being new to this, breadboarding will be as much work as making the pcbs!

Thanks again for your help.

Jon

[blueherdim7]

Okay, I have been looking into breadboarding and have decided to take your advice Chris.  Seems like the right thing to start with.
Jon

[8mileshigh]

Jon,

When you breadboard it, follow the schematic, not the layout, it'll be a lot less confusing.  This was only the sceond thing I ever tried on a breadboard so I was thrilled to get it working.  If you get stuck, I'll send you a photo of my board if my cats haven't squashed it again.

Chris

[mac]

What ever you do, bread board it first.

+1
Never build a project, this or another, without trying it first on the breadboard!

mac

[blueherdim7]

Chris-
Thanks for your kind offer!  I plan to order everything this week and hopefully start on it next week.  A question about breadboarding...how do you supply power?  Do you place the jack into the breadboard and supply power through that or does a breadboard have another means to supply power.

Jon

[mac]

My BB has two pairs of power lines. I just use a dc jack for chassis, and I soldered two wires that I connect to the power rails. I also have a some volume pots, the output jack, the input jack with two gnd wires for both gnd rails, and a bypass switch if necessary. Lots of alligators with the other end free to connect to the BB.
I was thinking of taking a picture of my breaboard and all the parts I have to simplify projects. Also the way I connect things.

mac

[blueherdim7]

Mac-
Thanks for the info.  I will put either a 9v bat connector to the rails or solder the jack and connect it to the rails.  I think I understand that for the jacks and pots you solder leads to them and connect the opposite ends to the BB?  I can see I will need to buy a larger BB than I had originally thought, since I will need room to place these things without a structure (pcb) to support it.  What size would be recommended?

Jon

[mac]

I have 2 BB, looks like 15 x 6 cm. Enough space for a Phase90 with 6 LM741.
Yes I solder wires of different colors to the pots and jack with the other end free to connect to the BB, telephone wires.
For example white to the center lug, blue to the right and yellow to the left (looking from above).
ALso many red and blue wires to ground emiters or opamps, and others of different lenght and colors.
Once you have those simple tools you can BB a BMP of FF while tubes warm up.

Take a look at this. I was testing electro vs. poly caps in a Tone Bender MKII. No need to say which sounded better





mac

[blueherdim7]

Mac-
Thanks for the help and pics!  I picked up a BB from Radio shack and a jumper kit and have been messing with it.  Very quick to build and take down.  I can see the value in BBing things before going to the soldering iron!  I should have all my parts on Wed and hopefully I can find some time to start working on it. 

Cheers.

Jon

[rikkards]

Sorry I haven't chimed in earlier. Missed the thread until this morning.

I have a board that has 3 smaller breadboards. At one point I  had the Kay Fuzztone and the JCM800 Emulator on it. It was getting heavy.

As 8mileshigh mentioned, I did build it. For me, the sound I was trying to emulate closest was The Edge's Elevation sound specifically from the Vertigo tour as it was really lush. I have rebuilt this circuit 3 times and finally got it.
This is the link I used: http://www.flickr.com/photos/germanium/2289446334/
Originally I started with 2n3904s using stock resistor values and it sounded like A$$. It was really thin sounding. At this point 8mileshigh and I started talking about it and I rebuilt it using 2n5088s as we figured it just needed more gain. The sound came closer but it wasn't quite right. At this point I replaced all Collector resistors with trimpots which got it even closer but it wasn't "marbly" (for lack of a better term) enough. I figured rather than dick with it more, I redid the layout as I wasn't happy with the last one and ordered the proper transistors, which ended up costing me about $20 including shipping and finally I can say it is where I like it. My advice:
1. Use trimpots for all collector resistors (so I had 6 trim pots)
2. The last 100k resistor is hit and miss. It made more of a difference on the first build than the last
3. Try cheaper priced transistors but if you are willing to shell out, get the original types. I think the key is low hfe transistors though (~100).
4. Voltages are weird, they are not 4.5 at the collector. But try to balance the voltage at Collector compared to the Emitter for Q2. As they are needed to connect to Q3 and Q4 to create the octave.
5. Try both Germanium and Silicon Diodes. They change the fuzz a bit. I added a switch to mine.

If you have problems let either me or 8mileshigh know. I think we have ripped this thing apart enough to figure out most. BTW make an audio probe (search for links) if you don't have one. It will help since this circuit has multiple parts that if one is wrong the rest will. It really came in handy in getting the final sound as I did it more by ear.

Mac-
Thanks for the help and pics!  I picked up a BB from Radio shack and a jumper kit and have been messing with it.  Very quick to build and take down.  I can see the value in BBing things before going to the soldering iron!  I should have all my parts on Wed and hopefully I can find some time to start working on it. 

Cheers.

Jon

[BRingoC]

I have built the kay fuzz tone, I used the schematic you posted, and also changed it to the one that ustomp posted later with some alterations.  The schematic does work, but I had to build mine with trim pots instead of the resistors that feed the transistors from the +9 power and adjusted them till they sounded right.  I also built it into a crybaby volume pedal enclosure using the pot that came with it, a 100k pot, worked ok, but most of the change is closer to the heel down position, works fine though.  I did not breadboard it first though, the schem can be placed directly onto perf board if you look at it you will see.