Why do we bother making our pedals battery powered?

[yodude]

I've read in a couple of places that the battery is an important circuit element of the Fuzz Face.  Are there any other circuits that are better run off batteries?

[aron]

Hammond XB1
Nord Lead Synth
Squier Telecaster Custom x 2
Roland Bolt 60 Valve Guitar Amplifier
Roland Cube 40K Keyboard Amplifier
Keyboard stand, guitar stands, pedalboard, DIY SFX synth, box of cables...........a few 9 volt batteries too would probably break this old camel's back!

WOW. That's a lot. I'm complaining when I have to carry my 2 keyboards, 2 speakers, rack and bag. Yours is like my guitar rig+my keyboard rig.

But I think I've got you beat with my S90ES. Hardly anything is as big and bulky as that keyboard!

[Eb7+9]

Here's another one: why do we still use a mono phone plug, when a differential setup would eliminate input hum on amps? Because already use mono and will not change.

complete non-sense ... differential transmission lines were originally devised because, practically speaking coil based interfacing could only go so low in drive impedance - and noise immunity is directly related to line impedance ... when op-amps came along, circuit designers finally were able to give near-perfect drive levels and thus super high noise immunity to transmission systems - way greater than what an imperfect/passive differential drive arrangement could provide ... that's the mechanism that's responsible or making active (EMG) pickups systems noise-less ... and they ain't differential ...

single-ended gain stages will respond to varying supply levels while op-amps in general won't ... some Japanese fuzz boxes came loaded with a AA (1.5v) batteries instead of 9volt ... it's just another circuit variable to play with ... to see if your circuit responds to "batteries" try sticking a variable resistance between the power source and circuit ... if adjusting the resistance, simulating a dying battery, changes the response of your circuit then you know what to expect running the circuit on a tired battery ...

~jc

[R.G.]

Do you really want to get into this, JC?

Think about it.

If you decide you don't, modify that statement to express it as an opinion, and remove the commentary about "non-sense" before the modification time has passed.

[snap]

first there was the battery
then there was the generator
then came the rectifier
then there was noiz

[frequencycentral]

Hammond XB1
Nord Lead Synth
Squier Telecaster Custom x 2
Roland Bolt 60 Valve Guitar Amplifier
Roland Cube 40K Keyboard Amplifier
Keyboard stand, guitar stands, pedalboard, DIY SFX synth, box of cables...........a few 9 volt batteries too would probably break this old camel's back!

WOW. That's a lot. I'm complaining when I have to carry my 2 keyboards, 2 speakers, rack and bag. Yours is like my guitar rig+my keyboard rig.

But I think I've got you beat with my S90ES. Hardly anything is as big and bulky as that keyboard!

Aron I used to gig with my Rhodes Stage 73 MK1.......seriously!!

[flo]

The benefit of balanced signals is clear:
http://www.harmony-central.com/articles/tips/balanced_vs_unbalanced/
"The differential input ... rejects in-phase signals that flow into the line, such as hum and noise. This is because the kinds of noise and garbage that get into a balanced line generally spill over both signal lines equally."

Anyway, to get back on topic:
> "I hate having to unplug so they won't die, and with adaptors I can leave my pedalboard alone."
I actually have reversed it... I plug my daisy chained power plugs (from the powersupply) into my pedal DC inputs in order to disconnect the batteries from the FXs so they don't die. 

[Solidhex]

Batteries... way to go for me. Playing in a different club every night you never know what to expect power-wise. Less noise , less hassle trying to find outlets and running power cables, less wires to come unplugged and disable your setup when people jump onstage. No power issues when traveling overseas where 9 volts are also widely available.

--Brad

[R.G.]

Do you really want to get into this, JC?

Think about it.

If you decide you don't, modify that statement to express it as an opinion, and remove the commentary about "non-sense" before the modification time has passed.

[soulsonic]

I love batteries!
Anyone ever mess with rechargeables? I use them all the time in other things, but never bothered to try them in pedals. I know the voltages and current abilities of certain rechargeable types can vary compared to carbon or alkaline equivalents...

[drk]

i use rechargeable batterys, never saw any difference in practical terms apart from dying more quickly(at least mines, but they're are old so...)

[B Tremblay]

Hardly anything is as big and bulky as that keyboard!

In a less polite environment, such a statement would require a response of "except your mother."   

[R.G.]

OK, time to modify is up.

complete non-sense ...

JC, I'm tired of you just swooping in to throw rocks. That's a coward's way of interacting. Either get in here and support what you said or quit throwing rocks.
Differential line increasing hum immunity is Audio 101 for every audio pro. Why do you think studios go to great lengths to wire the entire place up in shielded twisted pair, and to use differential input plugs?

In any case, don't take my word for it; flo has it right, and documents his facts, something which I highly suggest you start emulating.

The benefit of balanced signals is clear:
http://www.harmony-central.com/articles/tips/balanced_vs_unbalanced/
"The differential input ... rejects in-phase signals that flow into the line, such as hum and noise. This is because the kinds of noise and garbage that get into a balanced line generally spill over both signal lines equally."

I could go on but I won't. You either believe what you typed and are uninformed, or don't believe it and were just picking a fight. Which was it?

differential transmission lines were originally devised because, practically speaking coil based interfacing could only go so low in drive impedance - and noise immunity is directly related to line impedance ...

And here it is again. For whatever purpose they were devised, the are used at least partially for noise rejection. The latest generation of twisted pair differential lines? Cat 6 network cable.

when op-amps came along, circuit designers finally were able to give near-perfect drive levels and thus super high noise immunity to transmission systems - way greater than what an imperfect/passive differential drive arrangement could provide ... that's the mechanism that's responsible or making active (EMG) pickups systems noise-less ... and they ain't differential ...

So let me get this straight - you're advocating that we ignore making our inputs hum immune and put the much-hated opamps on every instrument? It's not me you have to convince on that - go try to sell that to the majority of the music community, including some rabid opamp haters.

On a purely logical note, no matter how perfect your opamps are, they will amplify, however perfectly, any hum and noise the cables pick up. The fundamentally high impedance of stock guitar pickups virtually guarantee this. There are ways around this, but the facts remain the same: we cannot change to ANYTHING but 1/4" mono phone jacks and unbalanced lines because that's what's already gone before.

Try this, JC - make and sell a guitar amp with ANY input jack other than the 1/4" phone jack. Go on, try it.

single-ended gain stages will respond to varying supply levels while op-amps in general won't ...some Japanese fuzz boxes came loaded with a AA (1.5v) batteries instead of 9volt ... it's just another circuit variable to play with ... to see if your circuit responds to "batteries" try sticking a variable resistance between the power source and circuit ... if adjusting the resistance, simulating a dying battery, changes the response of your circuit then you know what to expect running the circuit on a tired battery ...

... (notice gramatically correct use of elipses) so we should keep batteries because they can get weaker and we can use that? OK, 'splain how that's better.

[drewl]

Who the heck uses pedals for gigs?
I have a rack unit that will do more tha 200 pedals will, and the ditzy girls dancing onstage won't trip over them or notice any difference in tone.
All these wonderful sounding gadgets I build only get use in the studio or for fun at rehearsal.
So it's batteries for me......a power supply is one less thing I have to bring to practice.

[petemoore]

  I do it with a DC plug/battery clip adaptor cable, a quick splice job makes one.
  Simplifies pedal construction, requires that the battery be external.
  Allows DC jack to use battery, great for testing, I carry one backup powercell/adapter cable in the pedalboard case...nothing like having a portable, floating 9v [battery] at gigs...it has many important uses...

[brett]

Hey RG
+1 for the balanced bucking hum being Audio 101.  Even us Audio pre-schoolers know/see/hear it.

With this in mind, I reckon that more balanced (probably XLR) outs will appear on electric guitars (I have a fairly new acoustic with a balanced XLR out from the preamp).  The way forward might be for amp manufacturers to offer a balanced XLR socket as well as the mono 1/4".
cheers

[DougH]

I figure the only time I really need batteries is when I'm out in the woods with my Mike Matthews Freedom Amp serenading the pasty-girl...

http://electroharmonix.ronsound.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=45

[caress]

Hammond XB1
Nord Lead Synth
Squier Telecaster Custom x 2
Roland Bolt 60 Valve Guitar Amplifier
Roland Cube 40K Keyboard Amplifier
Keyboard stand, guitar stands, pedalboard, DIY SFX synth, box of cables...........a few 9 volt batteries too would probably break this old camel's back!

WOW. That's a lot. I'm complaining when I have to carry my 2 keyboards, 2 speakers, rack and bag. Yours is like my guitar rig+my keyboard rig.

But I think I've got you beat with my S90ES. Hardly anything is as big and bulky as that keyboard!

Aron I used to gig with my Rhodes Stage 73 MK1.......seriously!!

cmon guys...

wurlitzer 200a + pedals + fender twin
3 other smaller keyboards + pedals + fender pa 100 head + 2x12 cabinet
+ keyboard stands
ugh

it used to be worse with a 88-key rhodes and another 88-key digital piano + 2 other synths and more!  oh momma i felt like rick wakeman sometimes...

[DougH]

Wow... My last 2 gigs I just got lazy and went direct... 1 pedal board, 1 ditty bag, 1 or 2 guitars, 1 trip back&forth to the car - done. Sounded great too. The soundman has been recording us with garage band and playing it back on breaks.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother building amps...

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

What can I say, my commercial pedals are +-15 rails (based on analog synth circuits) so, that means an AC output plugpack, between 14 and 18V AC.
(OK, the Sonic Alienator is 9v DC, but no battery - at 180 mA peak for the leds, a battery wouldn't have lasted too long.)