How to get the Engl Savage 120 sound?

liddokun · July 12, 2008, 07:59:18 PM

So I've searched the entire net tying to figure out what amplifier my favourite band's guitarist uses (hide of X-Japan). And I finally find that its the extremely expensive Engl Savage 120. Unless I win the lottery, I'd never be able to get that amp. So does anyone know of any pedals that sound like an Engl Savage 120? Or close? Schematics would also be awesome.
Cheers!

frank_p · July 12, 2008, 08:17:11 PM

This is a four channels amp ! Where could we hear a sample of your favorites sounds ?
Maybee there is already a stompbox that would approximate that sound that you like !

liddokun · July 12, 2008, 08:46:05 PM

Yes, that is quite true. I guess I was pretty foolish in posting a four channel amp. Haha. I'll post a youtube video of the actual band.

This one's live....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eR5UVOxraQw
(there are two guitarists in this band, the one I'm interested in getting the sound of is the one that isn't playing the Les Paul, at around 3:46 you can hear him solo)

Here's a studio recording, which might make it easier to hear the guitars. Same song as above.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-6gk0VCWw7g

Don't mind the hair and stuff. It's a style back in japan back in the 80's.

Any help would be great, thanks!

frank_p · July 12, 2008, 09:13:42 PM

Hi Nam-An,

this sound like the fourth channel of the amp. The third channel is more creamy and more "crunchy". My guess is this is the "most high gain" channel of that amp.
This sound is more compressed and more "fluid" than the peavey 5150. The fourth channel of that amp have a reputation of sounding more close to a solid state effect than what more "looser" tube amps could do. Think of the Randall that Panthera used, with a bit more of mids and less bass.

Check out the Dr. Boogey DIYstomp and adjust some eq. to your taste. That would be a first guess. But it would not be perfect; your tracks have that "fluid-mid-crunch-with-hights". It's thight as in a SS Randall, but sounds a bit like the 5150.

Yours, F.H.P.
Montreal.

liddokun · July 12, 2008, 09:17:43 PM

Do you think a Dr. Boogey coupled with an EQ pedal would do the trick? The guitarist also used a Boss GE7 I believe.

frank_p · July 12, 2008, 10:17:57 PM

It could be, but it is not a "certified" opinion.

liddokun · July 12, 2008, 10:24:17 PM

Yea, I'm not trying to get the exact sound. Just something in the same ballpark. Because the guitarist had a whole rack of other processing stuff, preamps, and power amps, so its really impossible to get it. Plus pickup combinations too.

frank_p · July 12, 2008, 11:18:23 PM

If you make Dr. Bogey and want to mod it. Try putting an Eq. before and and after. This way you could "approximate" better if you need some "filter" changes before, inside, between and after of the effect. I tryed to find the schematic of the amp in question (to help) (maybee not long an off). Anyway: try the J.O./R.O.G. approach if you find the schematic. Note: they change filters values and FET selection as to have a sound that is as close/as usable as possible. Try to figure out what is the eq, pattern between the stage where there is more gain. Note that in amps and in boxes there is buffers as to "conditionate" the signal before it get altered. What you will want is the EQ./gain pattern. If you get the schematic and an good "résumé" of what you hear in these songs: I am sure that somebody will be glad to help you. It will not be as perfect as the original, but one thing is sure:
The perception of the musicians who played through this amp that I know (4th channel) is as it could be "modelised by a SS/and/FET box. That is because it is a very "thight" sound.
Good luck !

frank_p · July 12, 2008, 11:55:14 PM

Quote from: liddokun on July 12, 2008, 08:46:05 PM
Don't mind the hair and stuff. It's a style back in japan back in the 80's.

Don't mind about it, it was not only in Japan !!!!!!!!!!!
This is metal-meets-The Cure

dschwartz · July 13, 2008, 02:34:44 AM

hmm
i heard the songs..i have built a lot of dr boogey´s (that´s my fav distortion) they sound more modern that the clips you showed.
dr boogie doesn´t have too much mids, and the clipping is softer..to me the sound is closer to a krank distortus maximus..maybe with my mods (search for "burning crunch" in this forum) it will get closer..

frank_p · July 13, 2008, 05:06:03 AM

Tanks, Mr. Scwartz, I was hoping y're explicatons....

frank_p · July 13, 2008, 05:12:50 AM

But it still have more gain, less, mids and more hights...

and compressed...

frank_p · July 13, 2008, 05:20:05 AM

This is a JCM 900 micked, putted ib a Bassman and in an Fender Twin Ultralinear, with digital reverb...
Ans putted in an ENGL cab. ?

OnLyTNT · July 13, 2008, 05:32:53 AM

Hi,

What I heard in the video you've linked, sounds like a bit Iron Maiden to me. And my suggestion is to get a processor.

frank_p · July 13, 2008, 05:43:50 AM

Quote from: OnLyTNT on July 13, 2008, 05:32:53 AM
Hi,

What I heard in the video you've linked, sounds like a bit Iron Maiden to me. And my suggestion is to get a processor.

Check out the other videos in the same show.
JCM...fullblown... hights are fckn hights and blasted.

frank_p · July 13, 2008, 05:50:28 AM

Quote from: OnLyTNT on July 13, 2008, 05:32:53 AM
Hi,

What I heard in the video you've linked, sounds like a bit Iron Maiden to me. And my suggestion is to get a processor.

I don't even know what Iron Maiden were playing as amps.
I just know that I passed the jigsaw in a Destroyer to make it look between a JazzMaster and Bo Diddley's small guitar...

OK, I am having a earachee...

Renegadrian · July 13, 2008, 05:59:53 AM

Quote from: dschwartz on July 13, 2008, 02:34:44 AM
...
dr boogie doesn´t have too much mids, and the clipping is softer..to me the sound is closer to a krank distortus maximus..maybe with my mods (search for "burning crunch" in this forum) it will get closer..

Was thinking about the burning crunch too!!!

OnLyTNT · July 13, 2008, 06:16:13 AM

While searching some info about the group, in a couple photographs, I saw some Marshall amps and cabs standing behind them. So, If you insist to get some analog stuff I think Marshall Jackhammer is the best option to get such drives. Also, Iron maiden guitarists mostly use Marshall stuff (preamps, amps, cabs etc.)

liddokun · July 18, 2008, 07:38:41 AM

Hi,
Thanks for all your great suggestions. Yes, I know about the marshalls. That, however, is used by the other guitarist. I think I mentioned it in a post above, the tone I'm looking for is from the guy who is NOT playing the les paul. The Les Paul guy (his name is Pata), plays through JCM 900's, but Hide, he uses a combo of Hiwatts and Engls, and mainly Engls for his dirty tones. There's also a sansamp preamp and VHT classic poweramp in there somewhere too, I actually have all of his rig specs, but I think that's why it will be a little harder to get exact tones. I have found the schematic for this amp, and I'll post it, but it does look quite complicated, it being 4 channels and all. I'll look up the burning crunch too.
Here's the schemo...
http://www.houseofenglamps.com/ENGL_SchematicDiagrams/Heads/E610-schematics.pdf
Cheers

liddokun · September 07, 2008, 12:09:35 PM

I haven't looked at this thread for a while because of work, but I'm getting back into trying to get these tones.
Here's a list of his rig:
http://www.effector-mania.com/kenkyu_2.htm
It's the first one on this page, file 6, hide.
The gear descriptions are in Japanese, but the gear itself is in English so you can see it. Once again, this guy doesn't use JCM's. The band's other guitarist uses Marshall's. There's a slight difference in sound, it's noticeable if you listen closely.

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How to get the Engl Savage 120 sound?