Tonepad FSH-1 not working. voltages..etc... please help

[gijimmbo]

hello everyone.  i have been moving and haven't had the internet for a while.  now that i'm back i have a few questions.  hope someone smart can help me!!! 

current project:  Tonepad Maestro FSH-1        found here:      http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=96

i've got the board populated (etched my own) and offboard wiring connected.  no parts substitutions. 
heres what parts i used:

Q1 = 2n3904
Q3 = 2n3906
FETs = bf245a
IC1 = LM13600D
IC2 = JRC4558
IC3 = JRC4558
IC4 = MAX1044

i fired it up nothing.  well...i shouldn't say nothing.  bypass works fine.  when effect is engaged, i can hear a sort of ticking, swirling, almost static sound.  i can change the rate of ticking by turning some of the pots.  other than that, nothing.  the switches have absolutly no effect on anything and the rest of the pots don't either.  turning the 10k trimpot all the way to one side produces a kind of whiny sound which changes pitch and all the way to the other side produces a mid-range-ish solid tone (sine wave???).   i checked all the polarized caps and diodes to make sure they were in the right way.  i made sure the IC's are in the right way.  I installed the transistors as in the layout pictures. 
today i finally got to take some voltages on the IC's.  this is the first time i've ever used a meter to measure the voltages, so i have no idea if the negative/positive on the reading makes a difference or not. 
here they are:

IC1 = LM13600D

1     -7.23
2    .92
3     8.17
4      .3
5     8.24
6     -8.5
7     -3.8
8     -1.54
9     -1.2
10    -.02
11    9
12    8.17
13    -.22
14    0.0
15    -1.57
16    -7.23



IC2 = 4558

1   -.3
2   0.0
3   0.0
4   -9.3
5   -.72
6   -.72
7   -.73
8   9.64



IC3 = 4558

1    -.02
2    0.0
3    0.0
4    -9.3
5    -5.10
6    1.0?- ish
7    -7.5 ish
8   9.63



Ic4 = MAX1044

1    9.65
2    4.79
3    0.0
4    -4.71
5    -9.35
6    4.96
7    7.29
8    9.65

Do these readings look correct at all??  i really hope they are in the ballpark.  if anyone could shed some light on this issue i will be forever in debt.  i am really hoping to finish this project because i love the samples i've heard and i'm willing to learn if someone is willing to help.
thanks again in advance,

alex   

[gijimmbo]

just another thought/question.  i read on another post that in the GGG version, the FET's need to be switched around.  can anyone tell me if this is true for the tonepad version with the parts i'm using?  just reading through the "in praise of what to do when it's not working" thread... it would seem like a good idea to try it.    if that's what works 90% of the time, then i'm all for it.  just wondered if anyone got to look at the voltages i posted earlier to see if anything else could be the problem first before i tried flipping them. 

thanks again

[gigimarga]

I can't made it to work...almost the same problems as you...http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=67479.0...but if you search here you can find a couple of samples with a working one...so it's possible

good luck!

[gijimmbo]

thanks for responding.  i read your post several times along with all the others i could find using a search.  sounds like you've had a rough time with this.  i am going to try to take it slow and proceed with as much patience as possible.    
did you try flipping the FET's??  i am thinking of trying that later today after work.  if anyone else has any suggestions, however, i'm still listening.   
thanks again

[gijimmbo]

hello again.  this afternoon i got a chance to try flipping the FETs.  (Q2, Q5, and Q6)  this didn't do anything that i can tell.  should i switch them back or what??  i looked several times for solder bridges...pretty sure there are none.  i found some wires to the switches were falling off.  so i soldered them back on.  other than that i can hear no noticable difference.   
could someone more knowlegable than myself lend a helping hand?

[gijimmbo]

o.k.  so going through and using an audio probe, i found a bad joint and fixed it and now i am getting great sound from the filter, but nothing from the Sample/hold part.  any ideas of where to look next?>?     i feel like i'm soooo close.  should i flip the FETs back around to where they were in the first place? (as in the layout diagram?)
thanks again, ANY help would be appreciated.


edit :  i flipped them back around and now i am getting nothing.  so i guess i should have left them alone as they were....   

[Ry]

The trimmers will get you the S&H.  It will take some turning to get it to work properly, you may also need to try different noise transistors to make it sound good.

[gigimarga]

Thx all too...it's a good chance to make it to work right!

So, in the end, how to put FETs (BF245): as in the layout or flipped???

[gijimmbo]

well, i would say they are flipped.  (opposite of on the layout).  that seems to be working for me.  the filter sounds great, but even after spending about an hour on the trimpots, i am having a hard time with the S/H part.  the closest i got was a sort of tremolo-like sound that was extremely fast, even when adjusting the speed pot.  then eventually the filter part gave out, then the trimpots did nothing, then all i got was a quiet kind of distorted sound, and i just gave up.  need to give it up for the night.  i'm pretty sure i knocked a wire or something else loose while trying to mess with it.  or maybe i'm just retarded. 
should i have flipped the other transistors too??
thanks again

[gigimarga]

can you recheck your voltages, please?
i would be very happy if i will bring to life even only the filter

[gigimarga]

You're fantastic, gijimmbo!!!

I flip all three FETs (BF245A) as you said above and my dead Maestro FSH had come to life!!!

The filter is working very good, and for the sample/hold i need to tweak more time the trimpots and to test more transistors (anyway, it sounds reasonable for a 5 minutes tweaking)!!!

Thx again and again and again!!!

[gijimmbo]

i am glad that worked for you as well.  my filter also sounds good, but the whole reason i started this project was because of the S/H part as i already own a Qtron filter.  i still can't get squat from it.  today i tweaked the trimpots forever, and still nothing.  they don't seem to be affecting anything.  signal is coming through, but it's just clean guitar sound (without any treble) and nothing else.  very odd.  the other pots don't effect it, the up/down switch doesn't effect it, i don't know what to do. 
i tried flipping Q1 around, that totally didn't work, so i changed it back.  flipped Q3, that made it worse, so i changed it back too. 
i tried using the 2N222 for Q1, and that didn't sound as good either. 
I'm at a total loss here.  can someone please help?!?! 
much thanks,
alex

[oldrocker]

This may be answered best by Mark H. or R.G. unless Francisco P.  has some clues.  I bought the PCB for this specific project.  It's a tonepad layout that a member of this forum made for me for $15.00.  He did a great job and worth every penny.  Problem is I didn't learn as much as i would've liked like when I prefboard a circuit. 

This was the PCB with components installed. Does this look like the layout youe used?

[gijimmbo]

yep, that's it all right!      i etched my own board, using the tonepad layout.  i am going to do some more tinkering tomorrow, and will try to report back with any new info. 
thanks for your reply!!! 

[fogwolf]

I'm about to build the Tonepad version of this project myself - so, if I'm using BF245As I need to flip them from how they are shown in the parts layout diagram that's currently there? So strange since the page for the site even says the FETs used were BF245As.

yep, that's it all right!      i etched my own board, using the tonepad layout.  i am going to do some more tinkering tomorrow, and will try to report back with any new info. 
thanks for your reply!!! 

[gigimarga]

My S/H sounded better when i used 2N3904 or BC337 instead 2N2222...i will test later today much more transistors and i will write to you some voltages to help you.

Anyway, it seems to me that the effect of tweaking the 10K trimpot is bigger than the effect of 100K trimpot.

[gigimarga]

Take a look here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=69426.0

[gijimmbo]

ok i am in desprate need of some help.  not sure what is going on. 
the filter sounds great as previously mentioned.  when i switch to Sample & hold, all i get is basically clean guitar signal.  no effect at all.  turning the trimpots does absolutly nothing.  i am sure of this now after messing with it for two days straight (and turning the trimpots for about three hours or so using different settings).  i redid all the wiring for the switches (DPDT on-on) and the pots, check everything for more solder bridges, and bad joints, and still the same thing is happening.  i can dial the filter in for some great sounds, but i already have a Qtron and the main reason for building this was the S/H part. 
i finally broke down and took some more voltage readings.  all the ICs are the same.  i tried a new 2n3904 for Q1 (also tried 2n2222 as stated earlier) which made absolutly no difference. 
anybody have any clues???  please help i'm at a total loss here. 
thanks,
alex

[gijimmbo]

bump

aaaarg.....

this is driving me nuts
can anyone please help a still-mostly-noob out??  i've done everything i can think of, where should i go from here.?

[gigimarga]

Hello,

Sorry for posting them so late...here they are:

FILTER MODE, BATTERY: 9.33V

ICL7660 (instead of MAX1044)
1: 8.93
2: 4.48
3: 0
4: -4.17
5: -8.51
6: NC
7: NC
8: 8.93

IC1 - LM13700
01: -6.49
02: NC
03: 0
04: 0
05: -0.72
06: -7.65
07: NC
08: NC
09: -1.09
10: 0
11: 8.74
12: 0
13: 0
14: 0
15: NC
16: -6.39

IC2 - 4558
1: -0.27
2: 0
3: 0
4: -8.30
5: 3.45
6: 3.45
7: 5.01
8: 8.65

IC3 - 4558
1: -0.17
2: 0
3: 0
4: -8.25
5: -4.63
6: variable (negative/positive values)
7: -6.86
8: 8.58


Q1 - BC337
E: -1.54
B: NC
C: -8.15

Q2 - BF245A
D: 0
S: 8.45
G: -0.72

Q3 - 2N3906
E: 0.58
B: 0
C: -3.88

Q5 - BF245A
D: 0
S: -0.10
G: -6.06

Q6 - BF245A
D: 0
S: variable (negative values)
G: 8.37

Where i wrote "variabile" i hope to be so...not my tired hands/eyes

Hope to help you!