Multieffectbox-the order of the effects

[mat]

I've built about 30-40 effect now (+ few amps) and my pedalboard is badly disorganized  , so I'm up to build the most used effects on a Hammond 1456PH1BKBU box (http://www.uraltone.com/kauppa/product_info.php?products_id=2061&language=en).
Would be nice to have feedback and thoughts about the order of the effects in chain. I'll include a -9,0,+9 transformer into the box. This is what I was thinking about:

'/' means that the effects are switchable

The signal chain:

A  volume pedal/wah pedal (I have a schaller passive volumepedal that I will use to control volume and wah)

B  rangemaster

C  fuzzface/fuzz+octave

D  highway89

E  shaka ?/dist+ type

F  neovibe

G  ea tremolo

H  small clone/small stone

I  rebote delay

K  dynacomp (I don't use this with the OD-pedals)

I have other pedals built but the Neovibe. Others are on their own boxes that I will gut and install to the new hammond box.

So, what do You think ?

Matti T.

[Mark Hammer]

The easiest way to live with your final choice is to make it a flexible one.  Get yourself some 4, 5 or 6 position multi-pole (2 or 3) rotary switches and use each one to manage a "station".  The switch selects between the input and output leads of the circuit in question, and feeds the signal to the next "station" in line.  So, the "station 1" switch might let you assign any of several boosters or distortions to it.  The Station 2 switch, meanwhile might select between another set of effects circuits.  Keep in mind that you could make some of those circuits part of more than one set/station so that the same effect could be in position 1, 2, 4, etc.

Naturally, you would have to keep track of what is assigned where such that the same circuit is not part of more than one station at the same time.  But I guess that is what chicken-head knobs are for: keeping track of things with a quick glance!

No doubt many here will recommend a digital or at least logic-controlled solution.  What I'm suggesting is probably the easiest to implement.  Just remember to keep your leads short and civilized!

[dano12]

You could also put in/out jacks on the back for each effect. That allows you to easily and reliably change the order with short patch cables.

Like this:

[mat]

Thanks for the suggestions, but I want to go with the easiest/simpliest way with this one - connecting the effects on a fixed order. The box will be very crowded so I have to save the room for all the pcb's and pots and stuff. The box will have two rows of 5 stomp switches on each. I'll try to shoot for the shortest cable runs for sure.

How about the effects order ? My main concern is the placement of the wah I think. I'm looking for the best wah + overdrive/fuzz sound. I like Joe Bonamassas wah+OD tone alot! Also Steve Johnsons fuzzed sound is just marvellous  (http://www.stevejohnsonblues.com/)

Btw. The fuzzlab is just incredible 

Matti T.

[Ardric]

I'd put the compressor in the front of the chain and the volume pedal before the delay.  You don't have to have switches or patch jacks between all the effects, but one or two well-placed fx loops could be very handy.  If things are really tight you can use a normalizing stereo jack with a Y cable, like an insert jack on a mixer.

[jimbob]

Beavis Audio fuzz lab looks super cool!!!! Also one of my new fav web site to browse!

[petemoore]

  Gaphffft...but who am I to say...I'm in the middle of it too.
  So here goes:
  Switches...well, if you have to..but also it's nice to even have jacks only that still do something cool if one of those 'long-chain'-switches derails the entire train.
  I'm happy when I can eliminate electro-mechanics from the electro-signalpath, the ability to loop constantly reveals just how effective the long chain links actually are, the loop itself should be monitored by cable-around method once in a while..
  Nice looking box!
  Elimination of the jackery involved with multi-box conglomerations is commendable.
  Beware fixing all that in one. I opted for a couple, then a big-multi with Boost Wah, BMP, phase and uh..
  But went back to the single and double circuit boxings so I could play central exchange operator, connecting all my customers to each other in all different ways.
  The board has undergone countless re-arrangements and circuit modifications, I'm working a tone control into the Tonebender [now it's: .18uf cap and 100k pot, across volume pot], but it doesn't really work the way I'd imagined.
Dynacomp Er...at least my wah seems to really like compressed input sometimes, + the others.
   Plus about the boosted lower levels and noise...good to keep this one near the guitar...not to say that late compression can't be adjusted to be big fun too...
    A  volume pedal/wah pedal (I have a schaller passive volumepedal that I will use to control volume and wah)
  Cool...but the suggestion I have here is that..volume is more of a volume if a fuzz or OD is on [diodes limit signal above X amount], having this nearer the end of the chain means it will be effective in more circumstances, always able to 'boost'/cut.
  So...since your building it...you can figure out the feasability of having 1 treadle and 2 circuits...one circuit near the front [where many prefer their wahs] and one circuit near the end [where the volume control is logically placed]...unless you prefer variable pre-boost on the distortion tone, maybe use a dual ganged pot to have both 'gain' and volume capabilities...plenty to think or not think about ? ahhh...look into if anyone else has configured out such a treadle multi-capab.
B  rangemaster [nice to have this early so it's directly connectable to the pickup, you'll need a TBypass everthing between guitar and RM].
C  fuzzface/fuzz+octave [you have buffer 'inside' the true bypass on the wah output?]...so FF and RM can see pickup, and FF also can see a buffered wah output.
D  highway89 ahhh...Jfets..
E  shaka ?/dist+ type I like clipping to ground diodes...seems to need some HF tweeking, TrebleControl is handy for getting it set up right...that and how much input...which amp..
F  neovibe I should  build one of these...
G  ea tremolo you might like the thick tremolo sound of a wall of echoes being gated/opened by tremolo [ie echo>tremolo]

H  small clone/small stone Right here, late along like this before echo is where I'd put it too.

I  rebote delay correct if there is one...I mostly gave up on echoes into effects except reverb.

K  dynacomp (I don't use this with the OD-pedals Can be nice to have post-compression.
  Mighty big undertaking before you let us add suggestions.
  counting jacks and patches with my setup...augh du liebe, +how much I criticize 1/4'' connection design proliferation, I really need to get a panel of hardwired switches and effects circuits, and find some other use for the 20 jacks and related pluggery, at least try to divide number of connectors used by 4 or 5.
  I wouldn't rip all that apart to consolidate it into a unit, for my druthers it would involve rebuilding 90% of the circuitboards and moving these new tenants into an apartment enclosure...nice big project to take lots of careful time with, I have the nice drills and all except...well all the circuits and switches and the large panel!
  and I'm super particularly dissatisfied with the only available at the store [at the time I chose to take a chance...same time 'n place I bought guitars 'n pedals] 6'' angle patch cables, they looked fine between pedals, the only problem with the three cables, [and yes I verified the DMM buzzes], is that there is no continuity between the cables tips...I spent this week finding testing and ripping them out of the haystack. Hexagonal chrome angle plugs [look beefy] and thick braided cable...like new except where the end cap falls out, and mere total failure is detected [though sound still passes, and more than you'd think when there's an effect on...I got through by turning the volumes up last Sat.] softly installed between pedals...junk...no continuity ..the more cables you can get rid of the better your riddance of problem junk will be, IMEE.
 

[mat]

I'd put the compressor in the front of the chain and the volume pedal before the delay.  You don't have to have switches or patch jacks between all the effects, but one or two well-placed fx loops could be very handy.  If things are really tight you can use a normalizing stereo jack with a Y cable, like an insert jack on a mixer.

Ardric, could You tell why You prefer the compressor in the front and also the place of the volume pedal ?

I'm not going to use the compressor with the OD effects so the noise is not an issue with me.

The main reason for the volumepedal for me would be just to sub the guitars own volume. Its easy to adjust the volume while you play with your foot. I like OD-pedals (and fuzz) that cleans up nicely with the guitars volume pot so that is mainly the use of the volume pedal for me, thats why I want to put it on the first of the line.

The fx loop idea is great ! It won't take too much space either. Where would You put the one effectloop on my chain ?

Thanks,
Matti T.

[mat]

I opted for a couple, then a big-multi with Boost Wah, BMP, phase and uh..
  But went back to the single and double circuit boxings so I could play central exchange operator, connecting all my customers to each other in all different ways.

Er...at least my wah seems to really like compressed input sometimes, + the others.
   Plus about the boosted lower levels and noise...good to keep this one near the guitar...not to say that late compression can't be adjusted to be big fun too...

That is something that I have to test asap. Might put my orange squeezer in first of the line... have to test.

Cool...but the suggestion I have here is that..volume is more of a volume if a fuzz or OD is on [diodes limit signal above X amount], having this nearer the end of the chain means it will be effective in more circumstances, always able to 'boost'/cut.

The main reason for the volumepedal for me would be varying the od-clean sound.

 

So...since your building it...you can figure out the feasability of having 1 treadle and 2 circuits

.

What is treadle (couldn't find it from dictionary).

C  fuzzface/fuzz+octave [you have buffer 'inside' the true bypass on the wah output?]...so FF and RM can see pickup, and FF also can see a buffered wah output.

So You suggest of putting a output buffer to the wah...ok.

D  highway89 ahhh...Jfets..

G  ea tremolo you might like the thick tremolo sound of a wall of echoes being gated/opened by tremolo [ie echo>tremolo]

Thanks Pete, I'll try this one also!

[petemoore]

  Treadle is the top of the wah [word comes from old pianos and sewing machines 'Foot Treadle Power'.
  So it's the 'accellerator' pedal part of the wah case, toe down / heel down relate to different positions in the range of the wah pot [or whatever that pot is assigned to].
  Compressor 'before'...
  Tends to be lower noise [compressors raise gain on low level signals, and  'no signal' qualifies for that], the noise floor tends to 'rise'. The farther down the effects line you go the greater the noise floor tends to be. Also compressors...being all input level = gain setting sensative...may tend to expect a 'normal' level input [such as a guitar pickup produces], and will work differently with a boosted input, I believe but not sure...it's possible to 'peg' the compressor gain to lower level most of the time by boosting the input signal.

[Ardric]

Ardric, could You tell why You prefer the compressor in the front and also the place of the volume pedal ?

Basically what Pete said... for lower noise, and for compatibility with the other fx.  A compressor works with the volume envelope of the guitar.  Anything before it in the chain that changes the dynamics in some way (ie volume pedal, distortion, chorus, trem, vibe, etc) is going to change the way it works, and probably for the worse.  Perhaps if you split the compressor into two pedals... envelope detecter in the front, and variable amplifier (VCA) at the end of the chain.  A company called ISP makes something like that.  Imagine what a compressor after a delay is actually doing, and you might change your mind.

The main reason for the volumepedal for me would be just to sub the guitars own volume.

I see.  Since you've already got one just like it under your finger, it might be more useful to make it the other kind of volume control that you don't have now... the kind post-fx.  Allows you to be LOUDER sometimes without changing your basic sound, something you can't do at the front of the chain... that just dials in more or less fuzz.

The fx loop idea is great ! It won't take too much space either. Where would You put the one effectloop on my chain ?

I'd personally put it between the last distortion and the first modulation effect.  Then I could insert either a distortion or a modulation effect into the loop and still keep my pedals in the right order.