This pedal is killing me, any help would be great

[tiges_ tendres]

As I understand it there are a number of applications with short the pins for the increase of gain.  The ugly face is one such pedal, Doug Deeper's Freak Out fuzz is another.  Also I think that Crank pedal with the lpb boost in front also has the gain pins shorted, or at least has a pot between the pins.


http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/BarcodeVeroLayouts/Vero/FOF.jpg.html

IC is too small on the layout, but Ive had good success getting this one to work.  I think it might be missing a track cut at C1 though

nope, no track cut needed, as the verified comments below the image speak to

you are right about the IC though, never got around to fixing it...

I have built it with that layout and had it work too.  It's actually one of my favourites.  I just noticed that the signal input seems to go to 2 pins of the IC.  One through the cap, and one direct to the pin.  I'm a bit slow and dont understand datasheets and what not, but I know this works!  I just dont know why it's okay to have input on two pins of the IC.  Per haps that will give me something to do this weekend!

[Nick C.]

Try changing the 10uf cap to a lower value (100nf?) and see what happens.

Last week I was playing with my Ruby amp and added the "Grit" switch from the Cricket. I'm using the LM386 and the grit switch adds a 100nf cap between pins 5 and 7. I tried to increasing that cap to increase bass responce and the result was noise!

Also, when I started building the amp I connected the input to pin 2 (-) and the sound was crap, switching pins 2 and 3 resulted in good sound. Yea, the LM386 has it's problems.

[McGhie]

The guy that posted the schem appears to be long gone. Wonder if it ever really worked?

I've been thinking the same thing!

I just noticed that the signal input seems to go to 2 pins of the IC.  One through the cap, and one direct to the pin.  I'm a bit slow and dont understand datasheets and what not, but I know this works!  I just dont know why it's okay to have input on two pins of the IC.  Perhaps that will give me something to do this weekend!

Cool, so it seems like the IC has something to do with this.. post here if you give it a go, tell us the results!

Try changing the 10uf cap to a lower value (100nf?) and see what happens.

Last week I was playing with my Ruby amp and added the "Grit" switch from the Cricket. I'm using the LM386 and the grit switch adds a 100nf cap between pins 5 and 7. I tried to increasing that cap to increase bass responce and the result was noise!

Also, when I started building the amp I connected the input to pin 2 (-) and the sound was crap, switching pins 2 and 3 resulted in good sound. Yea, the LM386 has it's problems.

Again, the IC.. hmm.. I'll have to try your tip on the cap, 'cause my result is really.. yeah, noisy. Again, please post more if you have any theories or suggestions, I'm trying to work this all out, but it's a bit hard with my experience. 

[Cardboard Tube Samurai]

Ok, I breadboarded this and it works fine. I didn't have the correct values for everything but I went as close as I could with what I had (C1 - .0068, C3 - 3.3uf, 50k pot). To be honest, with these parts it sounded like a torn sphincter but through substituting higher and lower values for C1 and C3, I was able to get a few different sounds that weren't too bad (even an octave up with one combination).

So back to that original layout on page 1. A few questions:

a) Are you using vero board or point to point? That layout implies that you should use point to point. I had this thought because of the positioning of C2. If you are using vero and you have placed C2 how it is in that layout, it's not going to work. Likewise with the IC pins actually...

b) Have you made all of the adjustments to the switch (and pot, though this is not so important as you will still get sound, just reversed volume) as suggested? If the switch wiring suggestion has confused you, refer to this link ----> http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/switch_lo_dpdt_input_grd.gif.

c) Have you checked with a multimeter (continuity buzzer) to see if your effect might actually be earthing to the enclosure?

d) Have you double-checked the polarity of C2 and C3?

e) Have you taken any voltage readings at any of the pins on the IC? What are they?

As I said in an earlier post, if you could post pics of what you have done, we might be able to spot something that isn't obvious to you.

[Nick C.]

I breadboarded this motha the other night. All I get are clicks, oscillation, noise. Tried Andrews version with blocking caps, same deal. Switched polarity, changed cap sizes, with and without pins 1-8 connected, switched input pins, nothing worked. Looking at the equivalent circuits in the datasheets of jrc vs lm386 they are different, maybe wont work with a lm386. Somehow Samurai got it working. Did you use a jrc386? Is the result worth spending any more time on it? My guess, NO.

[Cardboard Tube Samurai]

I used the LM386. I definitely think it's worth it. Pretty cool sound for such a minimal parts list. Definitely a good starting place for people without much effect experience. I plan to buy the correct parts today to get it sounding exactly how it's meant to

[Cardboard Tube Samurai]

I tried it again on the breadboard today with the correct cap values and have to say that it's not the greatest sounding device I've ever heard. I preferred it with C1 - .01uf and C3 - .1uf. This just made it a nice smooth fuzz instead of it having the screeching undertones.

[calpolyengineer]

Do you still have the switch in the circuit? Reading through this thread it didn't seem as though the routing for the switch was conclusive. I would just set it up to run the input and output directly on the circuit to eliminate the switch as the problem. Also have you double checked that you have sleeve to ground and tip to input? I have made that mistake too many times. Next I would say to try it with a new IC if you have one (same model, just a different actual IC) because I saw that you said you tried changing polarity. That could mean a number of different things, but if you mean power supply polarity there could be a chance you broke the IC then fixed the circuit.

Well, I hope that keeps you busy for a bit, I'll breadboard this thing tomorrow and see what happens. Good luck!

-Joe

[calpolyengineer]

I just breadboarded this and it worked...sort of. I got a nice sounding fuzz out of it but the level was low and there was some sporadic loud popping. I built it without the switch or the pot (I just put in a 10k resistor since I would want to dime it anyway!) and I had to use some series caps to get the right values but I don't think any of those influenced the circuit much if at all. I think it is probably just a bad design, but on the bright side there are PLENTY of other fuzzes out there that sound great and have verified layouts.

-Joe

[Cardboard Tube Samurai]

So McGhie, did you get this working? Or did you completely give up?

[McGhie]

Hey guys! I really appreciate the advice that's been given, the last few days I've been busy with homework. But here I am!

Boy, is there a lot to answer..

[/quote]

So McGhie, did you get this working? Or did you completely give up?

I am torn between trying to get it to work (as I see no conclusion to as where the problem lies) and just plain giving up, going back to my Atari Punk Console vero.

Ok, I breadboarded this and it works fine. I didn't have the correct values for everything but I went as close as I could with what I had (C1 - .0068, C3 - 3.3uf, 50k pot). To be honest, with these parts it sounded like a torn sphincter but through substituting higher and lower values for C1 and C3, I was able to get a few different sounds that weren't too bad (even an octave up with one combination).

So back to that original layout on page 1. A few questions:

a) Are you using vero board or point to point? That layout implies that you should use point to point. I had this thought because of the positioning of C2. If you are using vero and you have placed C2 how it is in that layout, it's not going to work. Likewise with the IC pins actually...

b) Have you made all of the adjustments to the switch (and pot, though this is not so important as you will still get sound, just reversed volume) as suggested? If the switch wiring suggestion has confused you, refer to this link ----> http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/switch_lo_dpdt_input_grd.gif.

c) Have you checked with a multimeter (continuity buzzer) to see if your effect might actually be earthing to the enclosure?

d) Have you double-checked the polarity of C2 and C3?

e) Have you taken any voltage readings at any of the pins on the IC? What are they?

As I said in an earlier post, if you could post pics of what you have done, we might be able to spot something that isn't obvious to you.

A. It's on perf, which only makes it 10 times shittier to work with..

B. Yes, yes, I have. I replaced it with a 3PDT though (and added an LED) because the DPDT.. well, the DPDT melted from molestration aused by frustration of a non-working circuit. It wasn't on purpose though, I just kept rewiring the switch, and it didn't like it in the end.

C. I'm not quite sure what you mean with this? It is supposed to be grounded, isn't it?

D. Yup.

E. How do I set my dmm for this, and what should I be looking for?

But I am getting REALLY tired of this circuit, it seems that no atter what I do, it sounds the same. Crappy, that is.

I breadboarded this motha the other night. All I get are clicks, oscillation, noise. Tried Andrews version with blocking caps, same deal. Switched polarity, changed cap sizes, with and without pins 1-8 connected, switched input pins, nothing worked. Looking at the equivalent circuits in the datasheets of jrc vs lm386 they are different, maybe wont work with a lm386. Somehow Samurai got it working. Did you use a jrc386? Is the result worth spending any more time on it? My guess, NO.

Tell me about it.. I'm really starting to think that this circuit isn't worth all this fuss..

I used the LM386. I definitely think it's worth it. Pretty cool sound for such a minimal parts list. Definitely a good starting place for people without much effect experience. I plan to buy the correct parts today to get it sounding exactly how it's meant to

I tried it again on the breadboard today with the correct cap values and have to say that it's not the greatest sounding device I've ever heard. I preferred it with C1 - .01uf and C3 - .1uf. This just made it a nice smooth fuzz instead of it having the screeching undertones.

So with the wrong parts, it's really neat, but with the required parts, it's bollocks?

Do you still have the switch in the circuit? Reading through this thread it didn't seem as though the routing for the switch was conclusive. I would just set it up to run the input and output directly on the circuit to eliminate the switch as the problem. Also have you double checked that you have sleeve to ground and tip to input? I have made that mistake too many times. Next I would say to try it with a new IC if you have one (same model, just a different actual IC) because I saw that you said you tried changing polarity. That could mean a number of different things, but if you mean power supply polarity there could be a chance you broke the IC then fixed the circuit.

Well, I hope that keeps you busy for a bit, I'll breadboard this thing tomorrow and see what happens. Good luck!

-Joe

New switch in circuit, wired right, doesn't even bypass. IC didn't ever heat up, so I don't think it's dead. But yeah I have another few.

I just breadboarded this and it worked...sort of. I got a nice sounding fuzz out of it but the level was low and there was some sporadic loud popping. I built it without the switch or the pot (I just put in a 10k resistor since I would want to dime it anyway!) and I had to use some series caps to get the right values but I don't think any of those influenced the circuit much if at all. I think it is probably just a bad design, but on the bright side there are PLENTY of other fuzzes out there that sound great and have verified layouts.

-Joe

Yet another reason to focus my enegry on something else, instead of letting my first circuit experiences be ruined by bad layouts..

So yeah, I'm really considering giving up on this supposedly not-too-great, endlessly non-working layout and getting back to making things that I can make work..

Thomas McGhie

[Cardboard Tube Samurai]

Ok, I breadboarded this and it works fine. I didn't have the correct values for everything but I went as close as I could with what I had (C1 - .0068, C3 - 3.3uf, 50k pot). To be honest, with these parts it sounded like a torn sphincter but through substituting higher and lower values for C1 and C3, I was able to get a few different sounds that weren't too bad (even an octave up with one combination).

So back to that original layout on page 1. A few questions:

a) Are you using vero board or point to point? That layout implies that you should use point to point. I had this thought because of the positioning of C2. If you are using vero and you have placed C2 how it is in that layout, it's not going to work. Likewise with the IC pins actually...

b) Have you made all of the adjustments to the switch (and pot, though this is not so important as you will still get sound, just reversed volume) as suggested? If the switch wiring suggestion has confused you, refer to this link ----> http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/switch_lo_dpdt_input_grd.gif.

c) Have you checked with a multimeter (continuity buzzer) to see if your effect might actually be earthing to the enclosure?

d) Have you double-checked the polarity of C2 and C3?

e) Have you taken any voltage readings at any of the pins on the IC? What are they?

As I said in an earlier post, if you could post pics of what you have done, we might be able to spot something that isn't obvious to you.

A. It's on perf, which only makes it 10 times sh*ttier to work with..

B. Yes, yes, I have. I replaced it with a 3PDT though (and added an LED) because the DPDT.. well, the DPDT melted from molestration aused by frustration of a non-working circuit. It wasn't on purpose though, I just kept rewiring the switch, and it didn't like it in the end.

C. I'm not quite sure what you mean with this? It is supposed to be grounded, isn't it?

D. Yup.

E. How do I set my dmm for this, and what should I be looking for?

I used the LM386. I definitely think it's worth it. Pretty cool sound for such a minimal parts list. Definitely a good starting place for people without much effect experience. I plan to buy the correct parts today to get it sounding exactly how it's meant to

I tried it again on the breadboard today with the correct cap values and have to say that it's not the greatest sounding device I've ever heard. I preferred it with C1 - .01uf and C3 - .1uf. This just made it a nice smooth fuzz instead of it having the screeching undertones.

So with the wrong parts, it's really neat, but with the required parts, it's bollocks?

C - Check for continuity between +tive and ground. I usually do this by putting one probe on the dc input jack + and touching the other probe to either the enclosure or the dc jack -. If you get a beep when you do this, something is shorting to ground

E - Set your meter to dc volts in the closest range above 9v (usually 20). With the negative probe grounded (enclosure or dc jack -ive) probe the ic pins with the +ive probe. Provided that nothing is shorted/grounded as per question C, you should get voltage readings on several of the pins. For further info, refer to the What to do when it doesn't work thread.

As for it sounding better with substituted parts, yes I think it's worth doing. It's not going to sound anything like it's intended to though and you don't get the synth or octave down effect, but it's an ok sounding fuzz. Just remember, it's a beginner's project and the idea is just to get the thing working to help you understand a few basic principles. Trouble shooting is a huge part of the DIY effect hobby/obsession. If you want to throw in the towel on this one, I can understand. As I said earlier in this thread, I too have experienced the frustration and I'm sure a few of the others here would have too. If I were you, I would invest in a breadboard and put this design on there to try and get it working first as it makes it easier to move things around and make sure that everything is going where it's meant to. It also helps sort out which effects are worth putting in enclosures too and as I have discovered, I wouldn't bother with this one (without substituted parts... which is another great thing about breadboards!).