Fuzz bottoming out...

[gutsofgold]

What kind of fuzz does the "bottom out" sound. You know where you pick a note hard and it sounds like the fuzz became overwhelmed, gets really woofy sounding, and then recovers into the fuzzed note you were expecting. It's often a really bassy sound. Is there a certain fuzz circuit that is known for this or can I tweak one to get this?

[cheeb]

I've had misbiased fuzzes do this but it was usually something I was trying to fix, not attain. 

[gutsofgold]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I built this fuzz face for a friend and he wants it to do that and I've tried a few different transistors along with over and under biasing and I just can't get it.

[nelson]

Try over saturating an octave up circuit.

[gutsofgold]

well he doesn't really need an octave up or down.

what about adding a "gate" control to the fuzz face? would that get it to sputter?

[mnordbye]

Do you meen the "exploding" sound you can get from an Ampeg Scrambler? I guess you have to over saturate a fyzz stage to get that effect.

Magnus Nordbye

[gutsofgold]

yes, as if you were driving it with too much gain and bass.

[petemoore]

  Take yer basic Minibooster, boost the input, drop the supply voltage, bamm.
  The same trick works with single Jfet, but the biasing requirements are more demanding.
  The Tone God has a voltage sag circuit that drops supply V when attack is detected...neat trick to try on various circuits, 'the Punisher' IIRC.
  Not to say this effect doesn't present a problem or solution when bipolars or other actives are used.
  Since you say 'Fuzz' bottoming out, I've had that 'problem' [which can be a solution] with FF's before, just 'pinch' the signal somehow...drop supply voltage, boost input, or put a whacky bias on it.
  Any one of those three could possibly make it 'duck' attacks, combinations of the three might help allow better control over it, I've had it happen a few times as a coincidental consequence of 'whatever'...and only persued it to any degree of success using single Jfet, FF or Minibooster, with and without the Punisher [recommended as anything can be for that effect...].
  because it tends to be somewhat hard to control, bassy loud notes making the most consistant dropout timing, high thin notes having a much smaller duration, if any dropout.

[gutsofgold]

the Punisher would be nice to have as a stand alone unit and I could plug lots of different effects after it. Would a "sag" control be similar to this? I'd like to keep this as one effect for now.

[tcobretti]

I think the sound you are describing is very common in the Si FF.  I'd build one, then swap transistors until I could get that sound consistently.  The problem is that for some reason is happens on the lower 3 strings.  You might try a LPB into a Si FF, but with a volume control on the LPB so you can tune the flab.

I definitely think a Si FF is the starting point you want, though.

[petemoore]

Would a "sag" control be similar to this?
  "Auto-Sag", it's about as saggy as 'voltage sag' gets, technically it makes the voltage sag when input reaches 'x' level [adjustable sensativity].
  Use that to power your booster, and call it a compressor that is not clean, nor well behaved.
    I built the Punisher, it worked fine, but mine didn't last...I tried to figure it out..been a while.
  depending on the circuit you starve for gas:
  Compression, distortion, frequency specific attenuation, other wierdnesses.
  Unfortunately, I only remeber well getting to mess with it for a short while.
  If you're looking for note attack ducking to add rythmic 'come back ups' to low notes, or make chords appear with increasing volume and 'clarity' out of soft mush, or other hiccups in the attack/sustain apportionments.
  A good bit of circuit trials may have you looking at biases on circuits at different supply voltages.
  I didn't get a chance to 'build around it' much beyond a couple of mods.

[DougH]

Axis Fuzz  (Not Axis "Face")

[darron]

you can get that sort of sound by missbiasing things. sounds like it could be what you are after?

[Mark Hammer]

If I feed a Shin-Ei FY-2 with a very hot signal, I get that collapsing-then-picking-yourself-up-off-the-ground sound.  Nice.

[DougH]

Octave Up Sick Box (forgot about that one).

[Caferacernoc]

I find almost any commercial distortion pedal with a built in input buffer will do that if you put a big boost into it.

[earthtonesaudio]

Yep, lots of bass into a Fuzz Face will do that easily.

[caress]

Yep, lots of bass into a Fuzz Face will do that easily.

there you go...

just oversaturate a fuzz face.

[gutsofgold]

how would I go about oversaturating, just a booster before the fuzz face? If so, Would it be possible to build something IN the fuzz face enclosure to avoid having another pedal?

[Mark Hammer]

Certainly one way is by increasing the value of the input capacitor.  It would seem that many 2 and 3-transitor fuzzes tend to have smaller-than-average input caps, and perhaps this is specifically in order to prevent the fuzz from "bottoming out".  Small wonder that often one of the first mods suggested for a discrete transistor fuzz will be increasing the value of the input, in order to elicit different behaviour from the circuit.  Joe Gagan puts this property to good use in many of his excellent designs.  I know that the Jordan Bosstone acquires some very nice qualities when the input cap is increased.

Why does this happen?  Simple.  The guitar signal does not have an equivalent amplitude across the entire spectrum.  That is why, of course, in order to get "smoother" distortion the Tube Screamer trims the bass off before clipping.  Same logic applies to the 3-3 tranny circuits as well.  Bass simply pushes the circuit too hard.

Of course, sometimes that "too hard" is in a good way.