matamp green schematic ?

[fuzzo]

anyone has schematic of this amp (or only the preamp):



thanks

-fuzzO-

[fuzzo]

no one ?

I spend a lot of time searching it on the internet, and I found nothing! Maybe I've got this schémo or Know on what orange amp it's the clone.
-FuzzO-

[slacker]

I think it's basically the same as an Orange OR120 , but that's just from 5 minutes on google so I could be wrong.

Here's a schematic for that http://users.telenet.be/orangefg/OFG_SCHEM/OR120schem_post74.jpg

[fuzzo]

yes, I've the schemo of the orange OTR but in some pics of inside, the cap switch "called bass boost" seems to be before the tonestack (baxendall)

[geertjacobs]

Matamp does not release its schematics.
The original Orange amps were designed by Matamp and their schematics are similar, but Orange are more simplified.

On my website http://www.orangefg.com under "tech&mods" you can find a few different versions of Orange schematics.
The schematics of the OR80/120 have the same building blocks, but the blocks shifted place sometimes.
The FAC can be seen right after the input or else between first and second stage etc...

[fuzzo]

Hi,

yes, I know your site (very good site!!)

So the matamp green is just a new version of orange OR120, nothing more ? 

[fuzzo]

I'm still looking for this schematic or something similar

[sean k]

Hey Fuzzo, that Orange 120 is kinda cool and obviously english looking and if the same people designed the green and the orange how about you telling us what you think the difference is sonically and we might be able to advice where the OTR120 could be modded to acheive what you want.

[fuzzo]

Ok ok thanks, I found the Orange overdrive schematic,

actually, it's for play stuffs like stoner rock/doom (nebula, QSTA, high on fire ect....) and something like the recent zz top records. An fatty amp with balls

[geertjacobs]

you guys are in for a treat!
Here's the Matamp GT120 schematic that was a mystery for years:
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj101/lastcaress83/1973GT-120Schematic.gif

[rnfr]

now if we could only read the values!

[DougH]

Ok ok thanks, I found the Orange overdrive schematic,

actually, it's for play stuffs like stoner rock/doom (nebula, QSTA, high on fire ect....) and something like the recent zz top records. An fatty amp with balls

There's an old thread from the lounge that is probably in the archives that may help you. This guy built a homebrew orange style amp with a long tailed pair phase inverter (oranges use a different kind of PI) and EL34's. He posted a sound clip and it sounded amazing- perfect for "stoner rock" style of music. It really sounded massive. IIRC he posted a schematic somewhere but i don't remember. You may be able to find it with a search.

[fuzzo]

Ok i'll do search fonction tomorrow.

Otherwise I redrawn the preamp of the OR120 whit JFET andpresence control :



I did some mistakes in baxendall values , 330pf must be 1n5, first 22n must be 2n2. But maybe there's other mistakes ?

[rnfr]

what's up w/those 2 22n caps?  are they supposed to be connected to the 100k resistor?

[Derringer]

search for"orange citrus" by nelson

here's a thread with a schem ... scroll down a few posts
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=46492.0

[fuzzo]

Hi,

I found the comments of one guy said it's a good preamp for QSTA and black sabbath ! But I cannot find it anymore

But I can also have a clean sound with this kind of preamp ?

[DougH]

Oh, you're doing a JFET thing. I thought you were trying to build an amp.

sorry...

[Branimir]

There's an old thread from the lounge that is probably in the archives that may help you. This guy built a homebrew orange style amp with a long tailed pair phase inverter (oranges use a different kind of PI) and EL34's. He posted a sound clip and it sounded amazing- perfect for "stoner rock" style of music. It really sounded massive. IIRC he posted a schematic somewhere but i don't remember. You may be able to find it with a search.

Whoa!!! DougH noted me in a board message, damn I feel proud now that I'm contributing to this society after all this time! 

Anyways to answer the question for Matamp/my homebrew...

It was a 2xEL34 and concertina type PI didn't give me enough push for the power tubes (at least that design I used), so I redo it to a LTP phase inverter, I used pre 74 preamp schem from, heh Geert's site.

But, if you use this kind of design, you ain't gonna get much of a distortion out of the amp, unless you really blast it all the way (it was a non master volume design). If you blast it all the way, it will have some kind of groovy heavy tone, but with only 50w, the amp sounded as it was about to die every minute, guess I messed up a bit in the preamp design, I should have tailored it a bit better, maybe fiddle with the caps connected in the cathodes, who knows..

Let's call this design "mark 1", anyways, it was a nice clean amp that was great with pedals.

But the whole Matamp/Sleep tone always was kinda - "this close" but never like that, so I "upgraded" the Mark 1.

I left the pre 74 preamp (one 12AX7, that's two gain stages), and added an another gainstage, I think I just copied AX84's hi octane gain stage, as I'm typing, I'm trying to find that schem. Here it is!! :



This was a master volume type preamp, let's call this design Mark2.

CLIPS!

Eventually the drive from this thing was not something I really thought it would be (I though adding one stage would be similar orange preamp driving cathodyne PI into distortion), so after awhile I decided I'm going back to Mark 1 design... Altough the amp had a really convincing tone!!

This was taken when the amp was having a "Mark 2" preamp design, the guitar is an Epiphone gothic SG tuned to C into amp and 2x12" v30 oversized cab, mike was 57 I think - board was a Spirit by Soundcraft - into soundcard (I have EMU0404, dunno if I had it then too)...

If you can notice the amp's volume going up and down a bit - it's the power amp tubes about to die, they were really worn out about that time, and were scheduled for a change...

http://www.box.net/shared/t1gi8z9mle
http://www.box.net/shared/di7oy6noyk
http://www.box.net/shared/cpmu81da73

I remember now why I ditched this preamp design... I could get clean tone only with lowering the gain, and I use clean from time to time so this was bothering me me, also, they overall feel of playing was sort of - weird. The amp was about to fall apart every second, the notes would break up, the sustain was muffled, sometimes it was farty, nothing was tight, and it was really too sloopy toned for anything but droning slow chords every 2 seconds...

I tried all sorts of pedals with Mark I, modded DS2, Big Muffs, Rat, and finally settled for a fuzz face - this pedal is gold, eventually I went on tour with this amp, used it clean loud and hit it with an Axis Face...

I had a chance to try post 74 Orange OD120 and when crancked it was nothing like Sleep, it sounded like a really good meaty distortion, not a wild wierd scooped fuzz.

I even tried this as someone suggested:


But it was too wierd and totally not something I wanted, but it had really good dynamics!!!

Today, I don't use that amp anymore, I bought a DIY Hiwatt Custom 100 clone, it's louder and frankly, all these old british amps are, well, the same, they are clean and loud, and could get with any of them, I like Bassmans too!

I still use an Axis Face, here is some rehearsal recording from couple of days ago, I apologize to all English speaking forum members, the lyrics aren't done on this song, so the singer is just blabbering random stuff to keep the vocal line going, and the song ain't finished yet so there are some mistakes, bad solo work etc, but I think it represents the sound of the amp and pedal very well. Bear in mind that I sounded almost the same on my Orange clone, but not as loud as now. So the tone is there, it's more the guitar, way of playing and of course Axis Face, I totally believe I could get about the same tone from a Bassman (which sounds really massive cranked all the way without any pedals!), heck I even did it with a Iommi sig Laney head!! Bass max, mids anything over 2 o'clock and highs cut, and amp crancked+axis face, that's the deal, when you crank the amp, the tone controls on the amp, don't have much effect then, at least I percieve it that way, let's say it's more forgiving to some things. Anyways I use an Edwards LP goldtop with seymour duncan P90's. The begging of the song is fuzz on with guitar's volume rolled back for that delay work, and later in the middle of the song, it's amp's clean tone, as you can hear, treble on minimum doesn't sound bad, it's probably the pickups, they are sparkly in character, I guess with humbuckers it would be different, you wouldn't need to cut highs that much...

So Goldtop LP w/P90's into axis face, diy hiwatt, 4x12" (two v30s and two Eminence V12s). Other pedal used here is Rebote 2.5.
Here's the clip: http://www.box.net/shared/2qt45lt67l

It's not Sleep/High on Fire, and I don't really want to sound exactly the same, but it's hard not to, after all these year craving for that tone...

This is all live playing, 5 channels -> kick (d12), snare (sm57) close miked, one mic (behringer) to pickup cymbals and my amp (at least 1,5m away from amp), bass guitar (fender jazz bass into Albert Kreuzer's preamp! thanks Albert for the diesgn!) DI out to board (behringer) and vocals of course. The recording is not intended for any purpose, other then for us to hear how we play, to hear mistakes, pick up random things or record jam's, the vocals are a bit louder, because the singer has a bad PA and this way he can hear himself better, at least later when he gets home and listens to the recordings..

The bottom line is - it has to be loud, it's not for everyone and usually it's not for every place you can play gigs, but it's the way the results are most easily obtained, any decent amp set to clean, volume maxed, 4x12", or two of those, a basic fuzz face type pedal, and you're in this territory. Les Paul/SG work best for this kind of bussines, they are all mahogany (with maple top - LP), and the rest is up to you... I like P90's they are sort of - better IMHO than any other pickup heh, kiddin' - they are awesome, great dynamics and have a col mid growl when fuzzed.

Hope I've helped!

ps: I don't know if you ever heard Sleep or High on Fire live, but to dissapoint you - most of those tones are pure studio work, I heard two different mixes, well, Dopesmoker and Jerusalem, and the guitar doesn't sound the same, Holy Mountain was patched out of lots of recordings and production quality is crap, I think Pike used Laney AOR (jcm800 knock off?) at that recording, and some guitar tones are awesome (From Beyond). Later, first HOF album sounds the way those Greens sound, and I don't think it can be matched with anything but Green's, and I've seen HOF while they toured Europe, supporting Blessed Black Wings album, Pike used 2 Marshall JMP's maxed out into 3 4x12" cabinets. And you won't believe it, he used a Boss Metal Zone for distortion!!! I'm not kidding you, I worked as a sound tech, it was my first gig and I remember that day clearly. The guitar sounded very much like on the album... So it's the player-guitar and approach to the job, some amps work better, some don't but it's all there, don't be afraid to use pedals and have fun! 

[fuzzo]

What post

http://www.box.net/shared/t1gi8z9mle
http://www.box.net/shared/di7oy6noyk
http://www.box.net/shared/cpmu81da73

Sound cool for me ! very close to sleep or YOB tone ! Samples without pedals ? just the preamp ?

http://www.box.net/shared/2qt45lt67l

cool too, the voice recall me "Cinema strange" (goth-rock band)

You've did the sample with your fist schema, if I well understood ?
Why you didn't keep the F.AC.  ?

What do you think about that (if you didn't look) ?

I can put a switch to add the final gain stage, and have more grit and doomy overdrive ?

[Branimir]

I think FAC is no use really, it's just a high pass filter, the higher the capacitor value, lows are more attenuated, if my knowledge serves me right!

I think your design will work, it's similiar to Nelson's Orange Citrus, and if I were you, I would breadboard/perfboard it that way so you can switch gain stages, what I meant to say... Take a look at the various Orange schems, you'll notice that the EQ is sometimes after the first stage, and sometimes after the second! I think that has surely some impact on the sound and the way preamp sounds overdriven...

Try this:
Neslon's Orange Citrus


Yes the three samples you quoted are just guitar and amp, no pedals whatsoever, although! I might have used DS2 for a bit of a boost! I cannot remember... Second single sample you quoted is hiwatt and fuzz face...