If you had to put an effect in with reverb and delay, it would be...

[mth5044]

?

I have a huge enclosure for the reverb tank, and I also had a BYOC delay PCB lieing around, so I'm going to throw that in there. There is also room for 4 knobs and another switch, so I don't know what else to put in there. Maybe a chorus? Are there any clean DIY delays? No more of this PT2399 crap.

Over on HC I've been told a trem by many people. Also chorus with switchable inline or in delay effects loop. Also maybe a rehoused chicken salad?

Also, I would prefer it being able to be built on perf board as I don't do my own etching and have no access to vero boards.

Many thanks.

[ianmgull]

Another delay, but I'm what some would call a junkie.

[Franky]

+1, two delays cascaded could get a nice atmosphere...

The trem option is good, cause these effects are all placed in the effect loop of an amplifier, it's not a bad idea to gather them.

You can even try a phaser, to get ethereal sounds a la Pink Floyd..

[mth5044]

From the beginning I was going to put another delay in (because I'm also a junkie, seeing as it would be my 5th delay in my signal path  ), but the only other delay I have lieing around is the PCB of that first act delay pedal. Honestly, I don't want anymore PT2399 delays, as I have 4 of them already. I'm not aware of any clean DIY delays, so if you can find any (preferably on perf), that would be much appreciated. What the chorus and trem have going for them are their parts are they are easier to source out and their parts are cheaper.

I was also thinking phaser too, but from what I've seen their boards can get even bigger then delays. So the next step would probably be coming up with some chorus/trem/phaser/delay perfs or veros that aren't going to break the bank.

Oh, and the delay that is in there has both the repeats and the delay controlled with expression pedals 

[Boogdish]

Slow Gear

[McGhie]

The delay that is in there has both the repeats and the delay controlled with expression pedals 

OT, but how do you do that? I would love to achieve that with my Ibanez AD-9.

[Ben N]

EQ--best thing you can do for a reverb. I'd recommend a state variable filter, perhaps something like the one if the DIY BBE variations. Maybe 2 of them if you want to tweak dry and wet separately.

[Mark Hammer]

If you want a great reverb, then you should follow up on Ben's suggestion of including EQ.  You should also consider inclusion of reverb-specific compression.  That is, the input to the reverb gets compressed, but the non-reverbed signal that gets blended with doesn't get compressed.

As for the EQ, I would suggest including a variable 2-pole highpass filter on the input side, to adjust how much bass drive there is in the input signal, complemented by your choice of resonant or 3-band (T/M/B) tonestack on the output.

Finally, some designs (I think Fostex has one like this) have a sort of "pre-delay" built in, using a low-capacity BBD like an MN3207 to add maybe 10 or 20msec of pre-delay to move the reverb signal out a bit and stagger it from the original.  Understand that this does not add any more echo.  It just changes the relationship of the reverberation to the original.

[mth5044]

Thanks everybody. I never gave a thought to the EQ, I think it sounds like a great idea. Most of what Mark Hammer said is in another language to me, so is there any examples to provide? I understand the tone stack, but I dont know of any to put on perf. I have no idea of any reverb-specific compression or even what it is. Or even what a 2-pole highpass filter is. I'm assuming thats a switch? So that takes care of that hole. The three band eq would be three of the holes, then I guess reverb-specific compression could be the final pot hole.

So... are there any projects out there I can use for this? I will begin my search   

[Mark Hammer]

Most of what Mark Hammer said is in another language to me, so is there any examples to provide? I understand the tone stack, but I dont know of any to put on perf. I have no idea of any reverb-specific compression or even what it is. Or even what a 2-pole highpass filter is. I'm assuming thats a switch? So that takes care of that hole. The three band eq would be three of the holes, then I guess reverb-specific compression could be the final pot hole.

Smooth reverb comes from not smacking the springs so hard that they do that cartoon-show "yoggity-yoggity-yoggity-yoggity" thing where the head shakes side-to-side.  Since you want a good strong signal feeding the reverb in order to generate vibrations of the spring, you want a strong average signal without paying the price of that first slap to the springs.  A limiter or compressor with very fast recovery time will do that.  So an Orange Squeezer is a perfect candidate.  When I say reverb-specific compression, I mean simply that the reverb signal gets compressed.  You will eventually blend that back in with the clean/non-reverbed signal.  That signal may well be compressed or not, but the signal you feed the reverb spring pan will itself be compressed/limited to keep the boing out.

A variable 2-pole highpass filter is essentially a bass filter with a steeper rolloff to keep the bass out when you want.  Since the bass is the most powerful part of the signal, you can also prevent slapping the springs by taking out some of the bass before you send it to the springs.  Between limiting peaks, and taking out some of the bass, you should be able to get a nice smooth reverb. Of course, if you want the spring-slapping (and sometimes one does), you just bring the bass back in and take the limiting/compression out.

The highpass filter isn't that complicated.  It consists of two caps in series and a resistance to ground after each one.  To make it variable, you simply replace the fixed resistor with a smaller resistor value and a pot in series.   So, if you had two .047uf caps in series, and had a dual ganged 10k pot with a 3k3 resistor to ground after each section, you would have a 2-pole highpass that roles off bass at 12db/octave below around 255hz to 1026hz, depending on pot setting.

[mth5044]

So is the orange squeezer and the highpass filter going into the reverb circuit? Like is it going to go inbetween the out of reverb circuit and before the in on the reverb tank? Or should it go infront of the reverb all together?

Also, is there any perf layouts of the orange squeezer floating around? thanks.

[Ben N]

The purpose of the reverb driver is to supply enough current to drive the low-impedance input of the reverb tank. The compressor (and eq) would go before the reverb driver. Likewise, any post-processing would go after the reverb recovery circuit, which boosts the weak signal from the transducer to a level that can "compete" with the dry signal when they are mixed.

[mth5044]

ah so essentially, it will go: orange squeezer > tone stack > GGG reverb > hipass filter?

[Ben N]

I can't speak for Mark, but I think he was suggesting putting the hi-pass before the reverb and the tonestack after. Otherwise, you've got it. So: 
orange squeezer > hipass filter > GGG reverb > tone stack.

As for the tone stack after--my suggestion would be to try stuff, and not assume you need a full-blown TMB tone stack. You may find that a simple lo-pass filter (simple single tone control) works fine, or something like Mark's SWTC. Too many knobs can get in the way of playing music, and you may already have compression, level in, lo-cut, mix and dwell before you even get to the tone stack.

One more thing: if you plan to feed this a hot signal, say, in a line-level effects loop of an amp or after a stand-alone preamp, you will probably have to pad down the input to keep the OS from getting overdriven.

[DiamondDog]

Also, is there any perf layouts of the orange squeezer floating around? thanks.

Do a search for it in the layouts gallery. MarkM has one in DIY format, so it can be turned into perf easily.

(Just in case, and not being rude- there's a link to the gallery at the very very top of every page.)

Personally, I would have gone CE-2 clone...

DD

[aron]

All great suggestions. I would have said Chorus.

[mth5044]

Also, is there any perf layouts of the orange squeezer floating around? thanks.

Do a search for it in the layouts gallery. MarkM has one in DIY format, so it can be turned into perf easily.

(Just in case, and not being rude- there's a link to the gallery at the very very top of every page.)

Personally, I would have gone CE-2 clone...

DD

I know, and I saw the pcb layouts in the layouts gallery, but I'm not 100% sure on how to translate that onto perfboard in a manner that will provide the best set up. I'll gave to give it a whirl though.

[petemoore]

  Chorus...I would buy, or at least buy the PCB or make one, Perfboarding large projects, while possible is a lot of 'mapping' and first time trip routing...not that wrong turns can't be fixed, I nearly went crosseyed when I was perfboarding phasers.
 

[mth5044]

  Chorus...I would buy, or at least buy the PCB or make one, Perfboarding large projects, while possible is a lot of 'mapping' and first time trip routing...not that wrong turns can't be fixed, I nearly went crosseyed when I was perfboarding phasers.
 

Haha. Yes, when I was considering doing the chorus, I was going to get the BYOC PCB and go from there. But since EQ was mentioned, I guess making it the best reverb would be better for me then making it with another effect.

I guess another question I have would be should I put the orange squeezer and the highpass filter before or after the delay section? I'm guessing after the delay, but just a question. Also, can I just make the highpass filter a switch, basically more or less bass, since I'll be having at least a treble and bass control in the tone stack anyway? Or is it more important to have exact control over the bass going into the reverb?

[Mark Hammer]

Ben has pretty much nailed all of my suggestions correctly.  The compressor has to go before the circuit that directly drives the springs.  The highpass has to go after the compressor so that it doesn't monkey around with the envelope parameters, and only affects how much low end is pushing the springs. 

The suggestion of a highpass was born out of an experience I had some 20 years ago with a solid-state Gibson amp that I had picked up at an auction.  The reverb was godawful and lacked any sort of subtlety or focus.  I dug around inside and found the cap that limited the bass content going to the springs.  I reduced the value to chop off some of that bass and the darn thing came alive, providing a beautiful ambience.  Reverb should not be like a cupful of salt in a bowl of soup.  It should be like saffron in rice.  And rolling off the low-end so that the springs get to provide shimmer instead of boing is a good way to achieve that.

Can you do it with a switch, rather than a variable highpass?  I suppose so, as long as you know what you are shooting for.  The variable approach is when you don't know what you're aiming for and will only recognize it when you hear it.  It also makes the bass rolloff that much more universal and capable of being tailored to whatever you feed it.