How many of you guys run in stereo?

[Mark Hammer]

Anyone into Leslie effects? Or stereo tremolo? Or stereo vibrato? Or stereo ping pong delay?

In 1980, my band played a gig where I had a dual amp setup.  I had one amp (my trusty Princeton) driving a Vibra-tone (Leslie) cabinet on slow speed, and the other amp (a Valco) set to slow tremolo on the other side of me.  I cannot think of a time when I have been less able to remember the words to songs.

Ping-pong effects are fun to listen to, but disorienting to play with, simply because they command too much attention.  You can reduce the attentional demand they pose in a few ways.  One is certainly to have the speakers/amps closer together.  For example, some older amplified cabs for Fender Rhodes pianos appeared to have a kind of ping-pong tremolo on board, but because the speakers were all in the same cab, you noticed the swirl but were not too distracted by it.  Same goes for the old JC-120/60 amps; the speakers were far enough apart that the chorus felt bigger, but not so far apart that the sound was over "here" then over "there".

The other way to address distraction-via-movement is to reduce the modulation depth and make the contrast smaller between the two channels competing for your ears.

[blanik]

I used to, until I got tired of hauling around 2 amps. I ran my roto machine and delay in stereo.

+1 !!!!

had to haul around a JCM800 AND a twin reverb for so many years... 0_o

[Ben N]

I fooled with a stereo rig for a while, consisting basically of a silverface Deluxe Reverb and a Champ 25 SE, stereo care of an Alesis Nanoverb and/or a Danelectro Cool Cat chorus. I had the switching set up so I could use either amp as the master, with some dedicated effects for each "channel". This was a lot of fun to fool with at home, made some way cool sounds, but way too complex (for me) and vulnerable for gigging or even rehearsal/jamming.

[DougH]

I used to, until I got tired of hauling around 2 amps. I ran my roto machine and delay in stereo.

+1 !!!!

had to haul around a JCM800 AND a twin reverb for so many years... 0_o

Yeah, I twisted the wrong way and injured my back carting my 50W SS combo (very heavy) up the stairs. That was the end of the stereo rig for me. It was just to get my own jollies anyway. I wasn't mic'ed up in stereo. Even in my current gig I can't get mic'ed in stereo, so there's no point to it right now. For recording it's great though. And I like Alex's idea of a small satellite amp. Something like a Roland Cube or something might do the trick.

[DougH]

In 1980, my band played a gig where I had a dual amp setup.  I had one amp (my trusty Princeton) driving a Vibra-tone (Leslie) cabinet on slow speed, and the other amp (a Valco) set to slow tremolo on the other side of me.  I cannot think of a time when I have been less able to remember the words to songs.

Wow, I can't sing, let alone sing and play guitar or sing, play guitar, remember the words, and play in stereo. You're a better man than me. 

For example, some older amplified cabs for Fender Rhodes pianos appeared to have a kind of ping-pong tremolo on board, but because the speakers were all in the same cab, you noticed the swirl but were not too distracted by it.

I have some records with rhodes like that mic'ed in stereo and panned wide left & right. It's really distracting when you listen with headphones.

[Renegadrian]

My friend and ex band mate had a back surgery some months ago...So he had to sell his JCM900 head...
He bought this one. which is highly reccomended for your backs and for your stereo needs. 100W!!!  Hell...
http://www.aadsound.com/AG-100.htm
No need to have a truck, uh?!

[Ben N]

I think that the more extreme the effect the harder it is to make it work on stage. When one thing is happening on the left and something else is happening on the right, only the people in the middle are getting the full effect. Unless you are working with a very sophisticated PA and sound man, more subtle effects like chorus, rotating speaker effects and short delays work better than ping-pong and other radical stuff, IMHO.

BTW, when I was fooling with it, one of my favorite effects was the Nanoverb's pseudo-rotating speaker effect--in stereo it was gorgeous, whereas in mono it sounded cheesy.

[syndromet]

I run my guitar into the pedalboard, then into a Sans-amp. From there the signals go into a Digitech GSP-21 PRO, and from there to a Lm1875 stereo power amp. This is hooked up to two 1x12 cabinets. Very fun when it comes to panning delays and flangers among other effects. Sounds great too.

[Xavier]

I purchased an aluminium cart at Ikea to carry my amps around, it's no big deal and the result is very rewarding.

Or do some more pushups, guys 

[DougH]

I purchased an aluminium cart at Ikea to carry my amps around, it's no big deal and the result is very rewarding.

Can you pull your amp up a flight of stairs with it?

[petemoore]

  Dual Mono or Stereo.
  That'd be the MXR 18V Chorus' stereo outputs, or the Echo Park's.
  Even dual mono sounds different than adding a speaker with mono.

[blanik]

scotty moore is using a stereo rig with two peavey classic 30s... 



and you can even see how he adjusts his pedals for that classic slapback echo 

[Pushtone]

I think that the more extreme the effect the harder it is to make it work on stage. When one thing is happening on the left and something else is happening on the right, only the people in the middle are getting the full effect. Unless you are working with a very sophisticated PA and sound man, more subtle effects like chorus, rotating speaker effects and short delays work better than ping-pong and other radical stuff, IMHO.

Sorry to play the "as*hole sound man" routine. But...

Ben has a good point I think most of you are missing.

Even thought the PA systems I set up are capable of stereo they are running in mono 99.9% of the time.
The bigger the stage the more likely the PA is working as a mono system.
I often mic up stereo rigs, especially during summer festivals when there isn't a specific band tech rider, and ultimately those two mics are panned up the middle.
So the stereo effect is only heard by the player standing directly in front of their rig.

Running in stereo also sets back the goal of lowering stage volume.
Unless there is a very good reason to run a guitar is stereo, as a live sound engineer, I would prefer not to deal with it.
And if I have to, that stereo signal ends at the pan pot.

I do however, sometimes "ride" the pan pot like I would the fader for the DDL return. Usually at the end of a chorus or song for the effect.
Anytime else it takes away from to the song.

It's been a long time since I've done club and bar gigs but I would imagine that if a player brought in a (loud) stereo rig, the faders on the PA mixer
would be at infinity (off) and only the vocal mics would actually be going through the PA

I wish guitar players would show up with a Blues Jr. Thats an amp I can work with through the PA.

[waltk]

I just finished building a stereo amp in the form of a 16" cube.  The speakers (Celestion G12T100s) are mounted in two adjacent sides.  The power amp is a clean (2X100 watt RMS) car audio amp powered by a modified PC power supply (which conveniently has a single 25 amp 12v rail).  I used an Alesis Nanoverb and Nanocomp as a preamp, 'cause I didn't want build my own reverb, and added a ROG Umble in front of them.  The Nanoverb has stereo output which is very apparent in its reverb/chorus effect mode.  The whole thing sounds fantastic, and if I ever want to use other stereo effects, I can just plug them in...

[DougH]

Sounds cool!

I was going to suggest mounting the speakers on a corner (with a 90% angle between them) and it sounds like you did that. IMO the key is to build it to throw the sound around the room, which that accomplishes.

[Ice-9]

I use a marshall jmp1 into a stereo marshall 50+50 valve power amp (9005) into my 4*12 that i rewired to work in stereo. This was all in the late 80's when all the rack gear was the fashion. i used to run an effects rack in the send return of the jmp1. I now run the same gear but most of my effects are my pedals now that are in line between guitar and preamp. and the only effect i use on the rack now is the reverb and sometimes a stereo delay.

[DWBH]

A fun little trick is to have your "main" rig, and then slave out to a little practice amp, pointing in a different direction.  With the right sized room and good reflections, it can make a much larger sound than the big amp alone.

The few times I've done this I was really impressed with the impression of big-ness.

I got a Boss RV-3 and I've been playing in stereo since.
I play through a Dean Markley transistor amp and my little Harley Benton GA5. The Dean Markley gives me the clarity and punch and volume; the GA5 fills in those gaps, gives more consistency to the sound, and makes my dirt boxes sound better. Stereo delay and reverb is just
So bottomline, with both amps the sound is larger, more spreaded.
I haven't used this rig with the band, though, but may in the future.

[FlyingZ]

A long time ago I used a twin and a slightly delayed marshal sometimes with pan delay and chorus. What I found was it only worked good on a single point PA setup or LR.............RL. Even with the perfect live stereo setup it's not worth the effort.

[ashcat_lt]

For the reasons mentioned above, I consider stereo in a typical live situation as useless.  There aren't but 3 or 4 people in the whole club who are going to hear the proper stereo image, even if you convince the soundman to pan your amps out.  I can definitely dig 2 parallel effects lines, even into seperate amps, but not so much for stereo purposes.  Of course, many of my performances are in atypical situations (like the "PA" is actually the home stereo in a living room) where I sometimes can get away with these types of things. 

In recording situations I usually apply all my special stereo effects in the mix (in the box).

I have been known to abuse some leslies.  Used to have a Korg ToneWorks leslie simulator as my only amp sim, and it was quite often spinning all over the place.

[squidsquad]

At home...Ruby & a Pignose...2 delays....different delay times (but synchronized) = wonderful spacious sound...jam for hours.
Live gigs = too much stuff to load & carry...not enough room on stage...if an amp isn't properly grounded you'll get a nasty zap...
and now...yer too loud even though each amp is turned low.  Sigh...not worth the effort...crowd doesn't *get it*...things short out....
and then you resolve to *Keep it simple stupid!*