Best OD/Distortion for humbuckers

[AM]

Hi,
I'm looking at building another overdrive/distortion pedal to use exclusively with humbuckers (PAF style, not extremely hot).
I've tried tubescreamer-type circuits and I don't like them. I've built about 4 Red Llamas and I like them a lot but at high gain I would want something a bit smoother.
I also own various fuzzface derivatives, and a vintage Big muff. I like Muff's smooth sustained tone but I don't care about the mid-scoop.
Out of all of them I've used the Llama the most as an all around dirt box so far. The search is not over though.....
Is there any design out there that leaves the mid-range alone and DOESN'T cut bass without resulting in a muddy tone with the neck humbucker?
Thanks for reading.

[foxfire]

i like the ross dist. and  the rat myself. there are enough mods out there for these guys that you should be able to get what you want.
rylan

[Joe Hart]

I tend to lean towards the DOD250 which seems to kind of tighten up my guitar and add some richness via harmonics and seems fairly transparent with my guitar and amp and playing style. But I think everything works with everything else to create the end result -- cool tone. You really need to examine every element of the signal path. I'm sorry if this sounds like common sense, but so many people don't think of this. Like a "dark" (or some would say "muddy") sounding amp can really come alive with a Range Master, while other amps would become shrill and unbearable with a Range Master in front of it. Just some thoughts.
-Joe Hart

[aron]

>I've built about 4 Red Llamas and I like them a lot but at high gain I would want something a bit smoother.
I also own various fuzzface derivatives, and a vintage Big muff. I like Muff's smooth sustained tone but I don't care about the mid-scoop.

You already have your answer. Fix the problems you listed above in those pedals. All the info is on this forum.

[modsquad]

I have a DS-1  that I modded that is absolutely killer with my HBs.   I would look at that circuit and tweek it to your liking.

[AM]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Rylan and Stan,
The Rat and the DS-1 are both in my "to do" list for some time now. I think I will try them out very soon. Thanks for reminding me

Joe,
I know exactly what you're talking about. I have reched a point where my own rig sounds as good as it gets. I need some versatility though because I often play through different amps.

Aron,
This is a good advice. I guess I have followed it to some extend already. I have built around ten versions of the pedals I've mentioned before. I am building a new one now which encompasses all the mods/tweaks I've tried out in the past.

[modsquad]

The thing I liked about the DS-1 is that I have a tube and a couple of SS amp.   It sounds just as good through either one unlike some of my other OD/Dist/Fuzz pedals.

[aron]

>This is a good advice. I guess I have followed it to some extend already. I have built around ten versions of the pedals I've mentioned before. I am building a new one now which encompasses all the mods/tweaks I've tried out in the past.

Smooth out Red Lama.... Try lowpass filters on the end of the pedal. Remember that you can have as many as you want - one right after another.
Check out the Blue Magic schematic. See R11 and C12? Cascade this to get even smoother.
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=107&Itemid=26

Big Muff - check out muzique.com for the big muff tone stack mods.

What I have usually found is that once you get the basic desired distortion mechanism - then you are well on your way. After that, try EQ to get you closer.

[DSV]

For me it is the BSIAB all the way. Add a simple pre-equalizer, and it can be smooth as silk ...
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=71425.0
Edit: I forgot to say, in the vid it's at 2:20 ...

[John Lyons]

Aron is right. Adjust the big muff to what works best for you.
I suggest trying the AMZ presence control to bring in some mids back in the big muff tone control.
Simple and works well.

john

[WGTP]

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=48815.msg363590#msg363590

How about a combination of your favorites.  The 22/7ths is a cmos BMP with a switchable tone control mod.   

[mnordbye]

The big muff can get some mids back by just increasing one of the caps in the tonestack. It's a common big muff mod, and i for one like it a lot, AND it's easy when you already have one! 

[AM]

The thing I liked about the DS-1 is that I have a tube and a couple of SS amp.   It sounds just as good through either one unlike some of my other OD/Dist/Fuzz pedals.

One question: Is DS-1 sensitive to picking attack/guitar's volume control?

One thing I love about my fuzzface derivatives is how they go from low to hi gain by rolling guitar's volume knob and how they respond to picking attack. They are very picky when it comes to amps though (not to mention other pedals). That was one of the reasons I don't have them on my pedalboard and they are more of a studio tool.

My Muff somehow sounds good through both tube and ss amps. Sensitivity to picking attack and cleaning up with guitar's volume knob is out of question though
Studio tool category here too....

The Llamas have been a happy medium so far. They are responsive and sound good through everything I played them. (note: I don't know how they sound through a distorted amp but through a clean amp I had good results with both tube and ss). It seems that almost nobody likes them with humbuckers though. I agree that at higher gain settings they can sound a bit "synthetic" but DS-1 sounds a bit "synthetic" to my ears too. Big Muff ain't "tube saturation" either.....
I could probably get them close to perfection if I follow Aron's suggestion but I almost feel alone in liking the Llama with humbuckers.

EDIT 1: I went through a phase that I modded a couple of tubescreamers. I grew out of their sound quickly though and whenever I played them through a ss amp they sounded like poo. That's understandable though since I think their main thing is to push further into clipping a tube amp. My amps are always set clean (tube or ss) so I need something that produces a desirable clipping sound and doesn't make me feel like I swapped guitars everytime I step on it to go from clean to dirty......

EDIT 2: This is for Aron:
Aron I followed the link and read the "Blue magic" schem. Isn't there an even simpler way to achieve the same effect by soldering a small cap at the outer lugs of the volume contol? I remember reading that in your notes about mods. Mark Hammer's SWTC is a great idea too but if I can do with one pot less, it would be good.

[fpaul]

+1 for BSIABII, it's my favorite with humbuckers.  Only thing better would be a plexi clone with volume dimed, i think.  I bought a DS-1 after reading lots of positive reviews on HC and it sounds like total crap IMHO.  That was one of the things that motivated me to start building my own pedals, so not a total loss. I guess some DS-1s were better than others.   My fuzzface sounds really muddy with humbuckers (Bill Lawrence supers) but with a rangemaster in front it's great for leads, sustains for days.  BSIABII is much better for chords though, and still great for leads as well.  Just my 2 cents.  Actually, i'd recommend the plexi clone.  That's the other thing that got me into pedals.  I use to play my friends 50 watt marshall 30 years ago and set out to get the sound with pedals.  I finally realized about 90percent of the guitarists I like used the old marshalls.  BSIABII is close but not completely there. Of course you will lose some of your hearing with the marshall but definitely worth, it until you get evicted.

[AM]

Actually, i'd recommend the plexi clone.  That's the other thing that got me into pedals....

By "plexi clone" you mean the actual amp not a pedal, right?

[fpaul]

Right, that's a little more involved (AN DANGEROUS) than most of the pedals we build, but doable I think.  But it IS a great distortion/od for humbuckers.  I'm not sure how much of that comes from the type of speakers though.  Hopefully I'll find out someday.  My friend had the 4x12 closed back half stack and it rawked big time. Every once in a while it would make  some sounds which I've never gotten from anything else.  I couldn't really control it but I REALLY liked it when it happened.  Some of them may have had more MOJO than others though, I only have one data point to go on.  I have almost finished building most of the pedals I want or need, so the research goes on...  I'm a little concerned about getting into tube amps though because I not very patient; my basic trouble shooting method is to grab parts and wiggle...

[AM]

Right, that's a little more involved (AN DANGEROUS) than most of the pedals we build, but doable I think. ...

The speakers have to do a lot with the final sonic outcome. This is an undeniable fact. It's funny, I was just demonstrating that to one of my students about 15 minutes ago. I gave him one of my tubescreamers as a little present and I just played it for him through two different amps. It sounded very different. It actually sounded so sweet through my main amp that I almost had second thoughts....
Anyway back to topic. I have done some amp modifying in the past and I'm not interested in it anymore. It takes too much time and space and I have pretty much covered my amp needs. I also focus more on the pedal route because I play through different amps on many occasions.

[MikeH]

I say BSIAB II.  Best of both worlds - Somehow smooth and crunchy at the same time.

[earthtonesaudio]

One thing I love about my fuzzface derivatives is how they go from low to hi gain by rolling guitar's volume knob and how they respond to picking attack. They are very picky when it comes to amps though (not to mention other pedals). That was one of the reasons I don't have them on my pedalboard and they are more of a studio tool.

You can convert a lot of distortions and fuzzes to "act like a Fuzz Face" with the whole "volume knob cleanup" thing.

The key (or at least a big part of it) is loading the guitar with a low impedance, lower than the volume knob in your guitar.  If your guitar has a 1M volume knob, a 100k input impedance is maybe just low enough to notice some cleanup when you start to turn down the guitar.  50k is better, but 10k seems close to the lower limit. 

The same thing (impedance mismatch) is to blame for the Fuzz Face not liking certain amps.  It is high output impedance, and works best when plugged into a high input impedance (like the "standard" 1M tube amp input).  You could put a buffer on the end of the fuzz face to make it play nice with any amp.

[AM]

Man, that BSIAB 2 keeps coming from everywhere!!! I listened to some samples and I have to say it sounds impressing. The only thing I'm not crazy about is that I have the feeling it cuts quite a bit of bass. I might be wrong or it might be just that I'm so used in a bass heavy distortion...