Multi-Flanger ... anyone build it here...or know about it?

[John Lyons]

Has anyone here built this?
Lotsa control!!

http://hammer.ampage.org/files/multi-flanger.gif

http://hammer.ampage.org/  (scroll down)

Would be a bitch to set up and tune but still...

john

[dr]

.....I was just thinking about this very same flanger-all I need is the 2SA798 matched pair....I wonder if I could cobble in a CA3046?....................dr

[John Lyons]

In all honesty this one is way over my head but it looks to be nice and a lot of control is always good!
The transistors should be simple enough as it's just a matter or a modern equivelent and to match the gain.
Hopefully someone will chime in with some info as far as how it sounded or how a build went.
We already have the layout and a schematic!

Maybe mark has heard of a build being done.

Look pretty interesting huh dr?

john

[Mark Hammer]

Given the origins of the circuit (our friends in the Orient), I think one might have to turn to Japanese counterparts to this forum to find a successful builder.  I printed out a toner transfer sheet for it, but I have so many unfinished things at the moment (including flangers) that I am reluctant to take a bigger step in that direction than just the sheet.

This is clearly a project for a bigger box, whether a 1590DD or some sort of sloped-panel box or even rackmount.

[SISKO]

I would be very interested to chime in this project and to investigate in some options for replacements, but the thing that keeps me back its the fact that i could not find the mn3009. I only have 3007 and really dont know how much it would change.
With the 3007 it would be more mellow and not so dramatic effect as a 3009 would be

[nordine]

mn3009= 256 stages
mn3007= 1024 stages

i think the dramatism is on the 3007 

its in fact a cool project, now, what i do think however is more in the kind of 'workalike' adaptation than as it is, because lots of it could be bettered (starting with the bipolar power thing), simplified, or maybe just supressed (gain control? ..for synth stuff, sure)

the features i'd change:
-too-much-parts
-bipolar power
-useless functions

features i'd keep (the novel ones thats it):
-the "form" knob, strikes me as cool
-the envelope follower, in concept, but not as put in the diagram.. i'd borrow the EF from the mutron or something like that

[John Lyons]

So can it be made to work with the mn3007?
Is there any source for the mn3009 or would it be luck to find one?

John

[arawn]

Try small bear, steve has a whole bunch of different 300x chips different number of delays etc.

[arawn]

ok so small bear doesn't but digikey at least lists it, and for a pretty good price too. I think
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/467385-bbd-256-stage-low-noise-8dip-mn3009.html

[davent]

So can it be made to work with the mn3007?
Is there any source for the mn3009 or would it be luck to find one?

John

Hi John,

I got a couple of hits for the MN3009 but know nothing about the companies.  http://octopart.com/search?q=mn3009

For the MN3007 there are more hits. Mouser also have  an NTE sub for it. And as just suggested Small Bear has it as well. http://octopart.com/search?q=mn3007

Take care
dave

[oldschoolanalog]

Vintage Planet has MN3009's. I've used them before for hard to find components. They are very reliable and ship super fast.
Hope this helps.
Dave

[John Lyons]

Thanks guys.
I didn't find anything for sale with those links but at least it's something.
As I said, this is over my head.
If anyone thinks this is worth monkeying with I'm sure others would like to build it as well.
Feel like a challenge Nordine? 

john

[Andre]

I have, amongst a lot of other BBD's, 10 pieces of MN3009 which I'm willing to sell.
They will cost €15,- shipping included.
I accept paypal.

André

[SISKO]

mn3009= 256 stages
mn3007= 1024 stages

i think the dramatism is on the 3007 

Are you sure? 
As i understand it, the less delay time beetween the original and the delayed signal the more dramatic the effect goes.
Despite this, im printing the pcb to sart with this righ now and see waht mods can be done to this

[Mark Hammer]

Personally, I do not know what delay range this circuit aims for.  People use lower-capacity BBDs because they want to hit VERY short delay times without taxing the clock circuitry too much.  On the other hand, you can also allow the clock to be a little sluggish and hit so-so delay times with a 3009 if you felt like it.  So, it might be the case that there is really no substitute for the MN3009 in this instance unless you go to town on the clock driver circuitry so as to be able to extract the same delay time from a higher capacity (and more readily available) MN3007 by using faster clock speeds.  But, similarly, it might also be the case that the delay range aimed for is well within what could be achieved with an MN3007 and the same clock circuitry, if you simply changed the clock cap for a slightly smaller value.  I just can't tell from the schematic.

On a separate note, I was wondering why I hadn't attempted this, since I thought I had an MN3009.  I looked at my "holdings" this morning, in response to the thread, and remembered why.  I have an MN3209 in my parts bin, obtained from a chip exchange in a Washburn Chorus I have.  I also have a pair of MN3009s but they are presently occupied, sitting on the circuit board of a nonfunctional Juno-106 that I keep meaning to decide on.  Should I repair it or cannibalize it?  The synth only cost me $50, so cannibalizing is probably cost effective, but the Juno-106 is reputedly such a nice-sounding machine.

[oldschoolanalog]

I also have a pair of MN3009s but they are presently occupied, sitting on the circuit board of a nonfunctional Juno-106 that I keep meaning to decide on.  Should I repair it or cannibalize it?  The synth only cost me $50, so cannibalizing is probably cost effective, but the Juno-106 is reputedly such a nice-sounding machine.

Please don't cannibalize it! A nice old synth like that is worth the effort to repair; as long as it doesn't turn into a "money pit". What you would rather have is the ultimate question here. A functional Juno-106 (which you could always sell for more than the value of the cannibalized parts) is a very nice "toy" to add to the collection. Or would you rather have another flanger? Hmmm...
Mark; if you haven't already done so; finish your Anderton Hyperflange & Chorus. Then decide. You might want to check out what old synths cost nowdays. That should decide things for you; if you know what I mean...
This one is non functional:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROLAND-Juno-106-ANALOG-with-MIDI-synth-VINTAGE-manual_W0QQitemZ370110621686QQcmdZViewItemQQptZKeyboards_MIDI?hash=item370110621686&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1406%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
This one is mint:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-ROLAND-JUNO-106-SYNTHESIZER-Synth-w-Pedal-Case_W0QQitemZ370106785375QQcmdZViewItemQQptZKeyboards_MIDI?hash=item370106785375&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1406%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
Hope this helps with your decision.
Have a good one!
Dave

[Mark Hammer]

Actually, that is what has helped with my INdecision!   The things I can make with the parts from the 106 are probably easier and faster and cheaper to complete than repairing the thing, but when I see what a functioning one is worth I am VERY reluctant to just have at it.

[snap]

didn`t that octopart link above say: 480 thousand available? Group buy!

[Andre]

I have, amongst a lot of other BBD's, 10 pieces of MN3009 which I'm willing to sell.
They will cost €15,- shipping included.
I accept paypal.

Just for clarity: They are €15,- a piece of course.

[John Lyons]

"Just for clarity: They are €15,- a piece of course."
I was wondering...figured as much though.
Thanks for the offer, I'll have to commit to the build first.
What does that come out to in $


john