Orange Squeezer not squeezing enough?

[skiraly017]

Just wrapped up the GGG Orange Squeezer project and while I like it...

1) I'm not getting/hearing the Dire Straits sound.
2) I'm not getting as near as much squish as this one (sound samples as the bottom of the page).

I did not make any parts substitutions, so did I overlook something? For what it's worth, the GGG sounds exactly like a vintage OS I played awhile back and I'm kind of curious how Jam Pedals is getting so much compression out of it. Thanks in advance.

[petemoore]

  "Our Version"...could be the circuit has been made to pronounce the 'attack swing' a bit more than the OS.
  Tele, Jr. amps in stereo, microphone selections...and that is 'tuff pickin' country licks on the clip.
  These amps can be made to do some of the comp 'work', then when the OS type circuit is applied, the lightly [compared to 'squuishier' compressors] compressed signal uses the amps dynamics to make the comp sound more pronounced than the 'compressor sound' alone.
  IIRC Threads on the OS contain mod goodies such as more pronounced compression tone, and Mark Has typed about the circuit functions.
  And it 'sounds fine' with the Jfets the other way [just doesn't compress], I didn't use a RTS board and had some major troubles with pinouts.
  By itself, the compression can sound like a booster.
 

[cab42]

When I build my OS I was in doubt wether it compressed or I just imagined it. I used Torchys vero layout.

I put it in the drawer and used trannies and IC for other builds. Six month later I tried the board again, this time with a TL072 and new transistors. Wow, what a difference!

I have read several reports here that it is a very subtle effect, but mine is not subtle at all! I have put it in a box with a Flatline compressor and I get more squish from the OS.

You also have to be very careful with the trimpot. On my build the usable range is VERY small.

Regards

Carsten

[skiraly017]

When I build my OS I was in doubt wether it compressed or I just imagined it. I used Torchys vero layout.

I put it in the drawer and used trannies and IC for other builds. Six month later I tried the board again, this time with a TL072 and new transistors. Wow, what a difference!

I have read several reports here that it is a very subtle effect, but mine is not subtle at all! I have put it in a box with a Flatline compressor and I get more squish from the OS.

You also have to be very careful with the trimpot. On my build the usable range is VERY small.

Regards

Carsten

Which transistors did you switch to? Thanks.

[cab42]

Which transistors did you switch to? Thanks.

It was just another set of 2N5427's.

I may just have missed the sweet spot on the trim pot in my first try, though.

Regards

Carsten

[Mark Hammer]

I may just have missed the sweet spot on the trim pot in my first try, though.

I think that is key. 

At the same time, the circuit is set for a default gain of x23, and in some instances that might not be enough gain to produce a robust enough envelope voltage to push the JFETs into attenuating.  Remember that in order to get stronger reduction (and in the OS it is not gain reduction like the Dynacomp, but rather signal attenuation - same outcome though) there have to be a few things lining up:

1) The gain of the op-amp has to be sufficient.
2) The rectifying diode can't subtract too much envelope voltage.
3) The trimpot has to be set just right.
4) The JFET has to have the optimum resistance range and swing to produce audible attenuation.
5) The value of the input resistor (default is 82k but it has its tolerances too) has to complement the JFET so as to produce attenuation.

With so many things to be co-ordinated, it is easily possible that less and more audible squish is produced.  Make sure the diode has a low forward voltage (e.g., 200mv or so), and consider replacing the op-amp's 10k fixed resistor to ground with a 6k8 and 5k-10k trimpot to set gain.  On one of mine, I have a 10k pot instead of trimpot to adjust op-amp gain, and squish.

The other thing is that more audible Dynacomp-like squish is produced by having a longer recovery time in the envelope-follower section.  The OS uses a 4u7 averaging cap and a 100k bleed resistor to set the attack and decay/recovery time.  If the actual cap and resistor values are a little on the light side, it can seem like the squish is so transparent it's not even there.  I.E., your VU meter may notice it (no pegging in the red), but not your ears.  Consider increasing the value of the 100k resistor a bit to lengthen the recovery time.  This will produce a sound more in the direction of the soundclips you linked to.  A value of 330k or 470k ought to get you there.

But don't forget to put the guitar through its paces while adjusting the JFET trimpot!

[skiraly017]

Will do. Assuming that Jam Pedals didn't tweak beyond the original schematic and going by the pictures from the site there doesn't seem to be anything out of the normal going on, how did he get that much compression out of it? Also, has anyone had a vintage unit that compressed that much? Thanks.

[Mark Hammer]

I might point out that the extra gain doesn't have to be in the OS itself.  You can get more squish simply by preceding it with a clean booster. I suggest the adjustable gain in the OS for those whose pickups or picking style might be a little less "forceful", and who stick it at the front of the line in their pedal chain.

[analogmike]

Try backing down the trimpot a bit, to where the volume is JUST ramping up as you turn it. If that is less than 1/2 way on the trimpot you can try a 5K trimpot for easier adjustment. Try some different 5427s and germ diode too if it's not sounding like that. THey can be subtle but should work ok, after you determine it's ok then Mr. Hammer's ideas will make it even better.

[Electric_Death]

.........
2) I'm not getting as near as much squish as this one (sound samples as the bottom of the page).
.............

...man, I didn't know Hannah Montana had a signature guitar pedal!

[Mark Hammer]

The real challenge is in the listening.  The damn thing is so transparent that we frequently get "Is this thing even working?" posts here all the time.  So, naturally, it is all too easy to think you've set the trimpot right when you haven't.

What you are listening for is minimal change in level when you strum relatively rapidly at different pick intensities.  If you had a signal generator and scope, I'd suggest a different method, but in the absence of those, that is the closest "best practice" we've got.  Of course, strummin' and-a-listenin' at the same time can be tricky.  You may want to enlist the help of someone, although I suppose plugging in your MP3 player could suffice.

[Zen]

The real challenge is in the listening.  The damn thing is so transparent that we frequently get "Is this thing even working?" posts here all the time.  So, naturally, it is all too easy to think you've set the trimpot right when you haven't.

I think that may be my problem.  I read all the posts I can on the OS because I CAN'T HEAR IT.  I even found a good youtube demo where I can watch the person turning it on and off, but nothing. 

I was starting to think that the OS was just a placebo, or a sick joke!  Thanks for reassuring me that I am not the only one who has trouble!

[d95err]

My OS (built on the Tonepad PCB layout) can go from very subtle to really squished, depending on how you set the trimpot. I used an NE5532 instead of the 4558 which made a huge difference (much less noise and distortion). Don't know if it affected the squish though. I love this thing (although I don't use compression much). If it doesn't squish, I'd suspect the JFET. Try replacing it (or try another JFET type).

I definately get the Dire Straits sound with a Strat (or rather I would get it if I had Mark Knopfler's fingers...)

[.Mike]

I've only made three effects, and the Orange Squeezer is one of them. A lot of the posts I read talked about it being subtle. At first I thought mine was working, but a little experimentation with the trimpot revealed it wasn't actually working.

The general impression I got was that the trimpot basically had two positions-- off (no sound) and on (compressed sound). Now I might be wrong, but I found that the "on" sound on the trimpot is not the compressed sound. When you adjust the trimpot, it kind of crackles as it goes from off to on. The most noticeable compression on my build is in the middle of the crackle.

I read somewhere that there is only a 60-ohm range or so on the trimpot where the Orange Squeezer works. Too low and you get no sound, too high and you get no compression. If you're using a 10K trimpot that turns 240-degrees and you're trying to hit a 60-ohm range, that means you have a 1.44 degree sweet spot on that trimpot that you need to hit. I was only able to hit the sweet spot on mine once... heh. When I got it right in that perfect range, it was a night-and-day difference. The compression was very noticeable, at least compared to what I thought I had been the subtle compression.

I plan on replacing my trimpot with a multi-turn. If the 60-ohm range I read about is accurate, you would get a 25-degree sweet spot on a 12-turn trimpot and a 56-degree sweet spot on a 25-turn trimpot. Those seem like much better odds than trying to hit a 1.44 degree point.



Mike

[sockeye]

The general impression I got was that the trimpot basically had two positions-- off (no sound) and on (compressed sound). Now I might be wrong, but I found that the "on" sound on the trimpot is not the compressed sound. When you adjust the trimpot, it kind of crackles as it goes from off to on. The most noticeable compression on my build is in the middle of the crackle.

I read somewhere that there is only a 60-ohm range or so on the trimpot where the Orange Squeezer works. Too low and you get no sound, too high and you get no compression. If you're using a 10K trimpot that turns 240-degrees and you're trying to hit a 60-ohm range, that means you have a 1.44 degree sweet spot on that trimpot that you need to hit. I was only able to hit the sweet spot on mine once... heh. When I got it right in that perfect range, it was a night-and-day difference. The compression was very noticeable, at least compared to what I thought I had been the subtle compression.

I plan on replacing my trimpot with a multi-turn. If the 60-ohm range I read about is accurate, you would get a 25-degree sweet spot on a 12-turn trimpot and a 56-degree sweet spot on a 25-turn trimpot. Those seem like much better odds than trying to hit a 1.44 degree point.

My experience exactly with an OSQ. In the right spot, it's magical. But the sweet spot is small and hard to find. I've got a 15-turn trimpot I'm going to drop in. Will also socket the IC and try an OPA2134 and some others while I'm in there...