Finished the new BYOC analog delay (demo included)

[Nitefly182]

I think you can just touch your DMM to the base of the transistor in the socket (or soldered to the board if it isn't totally jammed down there). All you have to do it pull off the back cover. Might as well check the base pin on every transistor, then we'll know what bias they all have.

Yeah the board is so packed that I cant even get down under the transistors so I will have to pull the whole board out. I may have time to do it tonight.

[ForcedFire]

I don't know if it's worth it now. I hadn't realized at first that there was a V+, Vb, and VrefA. I thought Vb was the 4.5V, but it's VrefA that's 4.5V, Vb is pretty close to 9V.

[ForcedFire]

looking at the blurry schematic on the last of 32pages: http://buildyourownclone.com/analogdelayinstructions.pdf it shows a serious design flaw! (compare with H. Davis circuits). 

I looked at the Electric Mistress schem, nothing jumping out. Can you point us in the right direction here?

[rnfr]

so the resistors are supposed to stand up?  it seems that the holes are rather far apart.  but they don't fit horizontal huh? that's kinda weird. 
don't get me wrong beavis, i'm not saying you are wrong here, i'm just saying that if they were meant to stand up they could've put the holes a lot closer together and probably could've saved a bunch of space that way.  just my 2 cents.

According to the directions on the byoc website the resistors are meant to stand up.

i've seen quite a few circuits laid out before, and i've never seen resistors set up like that. i would think that with the lack of real estate they wouldn't have wasted that kind of space on the board.

[snap]

looking at the blurry schematic on the last of 32pages: http://buildyourownclone.com/analogdelayinstructions.pdf it shows a serious design flaw! (compare with H. Davis circuits). 

I looked at the Electric Mistress schem, nothing jumping out. Can you point us in the right direction here?

comparing flanger with delay is like comparing apples with oranges

[Thomeeque]

looking at the blurry schematic on the last of 32pages: http://buildyourownclone.com/analogdelayinstructions.pdf it shows a serious design flaw! (compare with H. Davis circuits). 

I looked at the Electric Mistress schem, nothing jumping out. Can you point us in the right direction here?

comparing flanger with delay is like comparing apples with oranges

Why don't you simply tell us, what serious design flaw are you talking about?

[dano12]

looking at the blurry schematic on the last of 32pages: http://buildyourownclone.com/analogdelayinstructions.pdf it shows a serious design flaw! (compare with H. Davis circuits). 

I looked at the Electric Mistress schem, nothing jumping out. Can you point us in the right direction here?

comparing flanger with delay is like comparing apples with oranges

Why don't you simply tell us, what serious design flaw are you talking about?

+1. I don't understand the need for mystery here.

[BDuguay]

I'd like to know too, before I build one tonight.
B.

[oldschoolanalog]

+1. I don't understand the need for mystery here.

Uh, yeah. Please dish. You really can't compare this to a Memory Man; if that's the H.D. circuit implied (is it?). MM has different supply V, BBD, clock chip, etc. The only "flaw" I see is the cap left floating in the delay line when you switch to short mode. Does this make an audible noise when switched? (If it doesn't; it's not a flaw )
Now getting back to the original topic; nice job Nitefly, it sounds great. 
Time to get out the popcorn..
Dave

[WLTerry]

[...] The only "flaw" I see is the cap left floating in the delay line when you switch to short mode. Does this make an audible noise when switched?...

Ahhhh yeah.... I can hear a pop noise in a youtube demo of this pedal... How it  can be solved? with a 3PDT toggle switch instead of a DPDT and put this cap input to ground?

[Mark Hammer]

Well does the short/long switch HAVE to be "true bypass"?  Maybe I'm missing something, but it strikes me that one ought to be able to simply "tap" the signal at any juncture along the way.  In which case, the 1uf cap that appears to be labelled C30 can be left tied to the wiper of VR7, and the long/short switch simply selects that point OR the output of the last BBD as its "tap point".  Once C30 is left connected to something, there should be no pop.  The nice thing is that the board and switch do not preclude doing that.

Not a huge flaw in my books.  I don't know how many would switch back and forth between long and short mid-song, the same way they might switch back and forth between echo/clean during a song.  Again, I'm guessing on behalf of people, but my guess is that long/short selection is done off-line.

[FuzzAldrin]

What is this serious flaw?
I just built this 2 days ago and it sounds amazing. No pop when I turn it on. LED is fine. Clear instructions, fast shipping, great quality, great forum.
I may be new to all this but it seems a lot of you guys are hatin' on BYOC for like no real reason at all.

[BDuguay]

What is this serious flaw?
I just built this 2 days ago and it sounds amazing. No pop when I turn it on. LED is fine. Clear instructions, fast shipping, great quality, great forum.
I may be new to all this but it seems a lot of you guys are hatin' on BYOC for like no real reason at all.

Yeah, I get that sense too sometimes.
B.

[Mark Hammer]

No hate or flaming directed at all, and naught but props to BYOC.  Indeed, this thing comes VERY close to the much more costly large fuschia Maxon Analog Delay, which also uses multiple MN3102s ganged/slaved to a master one.

Pops are a curious thing.  When people draw attention to pop-proofing a pedal it is not the case that the switch will pop in an obvious audible way each and every time you flick the switch.  Rather, certain switching arrangements pose a risk of audible popping....which in turn will occur sometimes, and sometimes not.

The pop arises out of charge/current being stored in the cap with the free end.  When there is nowhere for the charge to drain, the first opportunity it has to drain will result in all that stored charge rushing out at once, which is what we hear as a "pop".  But if there IS no charge stored, whether because there was nothing to charge the cap up, or because the cap was recently discharged, there will be no pop.  So, plug your guitar in and play a bit with a stock BYOC delay (as shown via the link).  Switch from long to short and there is no pop, because you are removing the drain path.  Switch BACK from short to long and you will hear it.  Now switch back and forth between long and short a few times, without playing anything, and there is a pretty good chance you won't hear any pop.

So, YES, you didn't hear it, but YES it can still be a nuisance sometimes for some people.  Not a fatal flaw whatsoever, though.  Just something to tend to.  Every pedal's got one.

Incidentally, for those who view true bypass as the panacea for everything, the issue we are discussing is DUE to true bypass.

[ForcedFire]

I'm not hating at all either, just trying to figure out the questions people are raising.

[oldschoolanalog]

For the record. I am not hating at all either. At $150 this thing sounds fantastic and is a great deal for somebody with the proper building and setup skills. To have all the parts in one place (no annoying need to order a couple of resistors, etc.) is a bargain unto itself. Note below that the word "flaw" is in "quotes". To clarify how I really feel; read the last line in parentheses.

The only "flaw" I see is the cap left floating in the delay line when you switch to short mode. Does this make an audible noise when switched? (If it doesn't; it's not a flaw )

However; what I and many others would like to know is the answer to:

looking at the blurry schematic on the last of 32pages: http://buildyourownclone.com/analogdelayinstructions.pdf it shows a serious design flaw! (compare with H. Davis circuits). 

Seriously. What serious design flaw is being referred to here? 
Mr. snap, the floor is yours. We await your answer...
Thanx,
Dave

[Unbeliever]

Resistors do not cleanly lie down or stand up? 

The build document also doesn't explicitly mention that the stand-up resistors should be inserted so the body doesn't touch the PCB to avoid thermal expansion issues messing with the joints over time.

And - IMHO - the PCB layout is hideously ugly. I don't get how these guys can afford their own CNC machine, yet can't afford to pay someone to do a better looking layout. All four possible (N, S, E, W) electro orientations are used, just for one example; this is a hassle for experienced builders, let alone the beginners. It makes it impossible to cast your eye over the final result and do a visual check of correctness. The PCB layout should, amongst other things, make it easier - not harder - to assemble the units. Doing a better job of this in the first place would enable even beginner builders to use their natural 'eye' for orientation, harmony and order, and reduce the need for support.

And minimal or no customer support? 

Be fair, RG, there IS an entire two-paragraph disclaimer in their documentation about this ... ...  buying the kit doesn't entitle you to any tech support. I guess you find this out after you buy the kit and need some help.

[wader2k]

All I have to say is that thing sounds great!

I have several things to build before I get some time to throw at this ...... but I think this ckt has a future on my bench!
And I will say that although I haven't bought any of BYOC's kits, I have used one of their ckt bds to build a highly modded TS and the forum over there was helpful.......

[dano12]

With all this talk of "hidden" design flaws, horrible PCB design, and non-existent customer service, it's pretty clear we've created quite a nice witch hunt here.

I'm still waiting to hear about the design flaws.

As for the PCB design, I'd look at it this way: does it work? Yes. Does it sound great? Yes. Can an intermediate builder make one? Yes. Does it have board mounted pots and switches for easy assembly? Yes. For all the plaintiffs, I'd suggest you undertake project to design a semi-original 1 second analog delay, design a two layer PCB that lacks all the BYOC "critical mistakes", then make it available to the building public for low cost. Other than that, its just armchair commerce.

As for support, check out the byoc forums. There is a lot of guys, including Keith from BYOC who support the products every day of the week. Check out the analog delay threads and you'll see the level of detail in information supporting the kit.

[BDuguay]

Also, I've seen resistors installed upright in pedals by Boss, Ibanez, and even Boutiquers like Skreddy.
Just stokin, I mean sayin...
B.