Overdubbing on cassette recorders?

[geir_helgi]

Alright, first of all hi
My name is Geir Helgi, I've been checking this site out a lot and am about to build one of those voice recorder loopers (later)

Anyways,
tonight I was making these cassette loops out of old cassettes, I made the Standard, the Chandler loops and also a new one a really short one..
instructions here:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Making_Cassette_Tape_Loops

I love my Boss DD-6 (it's hold function is awesome) <- that's what I'm after..

So I was just wondering how I can overdub onto those cassette loops with the recorder/player (I have an old, portable one)
I read some article on cassette recorders and it said 'in the old days' people used to put cardboard over the erase-heads to overdub onto their tapes.

Also, what do I need to do to play/listen to the loop and to be able to record over it at the same time? (like the DD-6)

Kind of like a cassette DD-6?

thanks a ton in advance,

-Geir Helgi

[sean k]

Hey Buddy, I know exactly where you're coming from but I've taken the easy way out and got me a Boss loop station, the RC-2, and a DD-7 as well... after finally getting my Akai, the blue thingy, three in one gizmo with looping' ordinary delay and tapehead echo out of storage and playing with it... but I came into money and got the next generation stuff, and sold the Akai, 'cause the digital realm is where its at when it comes to being able to do that kinda stuff. 

I'd mucked about with voice recorder chips but never had any real luck with them and oddly enough, after seeing a tape preamp, thought about doing a tape echo unit.

Now as for your questions I think you'll just have to read up a bit on how the tape casettes function as recorders erasers and players and then gauge whether you can switch off the erase function. I'm not sure but I think the record function is shared by the play function on the same head but I may be wrong. Or maybe the erase and record are shared by the same head... sh#t, maybe all three functions are performed by the same head which would mean you'd need another head to behind the playing head which would be recording and then have them swap to play and erase. I'm not sure at all.

I do hope though that someone chimes in because a tape loop machine of this type would be a neat fun build and I can offer up the preamp I've got by RA Penfold.

[sean k]

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-36932.html

This should get you started.
http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/05/01/diy-tape-delay-machi.html

and this is what it might look like 

http://thesquarewaveparade.com/images/te1.jpg
http://thesquarewaveparade.com/images/te2.jpg

then you'll get into something really keen like this. Whic came from this page
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=1036

All from a google "tape echo diy"

So basically you want two cassette decks, or one with two separate heads, then build the device with the quad opamp. Done 

[geir_helgi]

hey sean!
thanks for dropping that info bomb! 

ok, I'm gonna go and see if I can find a tape deck with two/seperate heads, that should be a lot easier

ps. in my tape recorder there's a small piece, very similar to the play head in front of the play head, think that might be it? (the erase head) when I press play it goes into the cassette itself (like the play head) so there really is no way of putting a piece of cardboard between there, like that old trick implies

[geir_helgi]

alright, while I'm trying to find a double/triple head cassette player I just wanted to bump this to see if someone knows

I remember when I was ca. 12 years old I was recording a mix-tape on a Sony home-radio/boombox and I remember this one time I accidentally recorded over some tape and when it finished to rewind I pressed play and *bam* two songs were playing at once!
..I accidentally overdubbed so I'm sure it's possible somehow

[frequencycentral]

It should be possible to 'break' erase head connection and have it on a toggle switch. You should be able to do the same with the record head. I did this to my WEM Copicat to make a (very primative) looper. It will probably cause a click/thunk when you activate it though.

[geir_helgi]

It should be possible to 'break' erase head connection and have it on a toggle switch. You should be able to do the same with the record head. I did this to my WEM Copicat to make a (very primative) looper. It will probably cause a click/thunk when you activate it though.

ok, sweet deal!
the erase head isn't anything more than a magnet, right?

ps. did you make tape loops for your wem?
any tips? because I always get this small gap where the ends meet, yup, even at a 45° angle!


hey,
marquee? THANKS! hehe

[frequencycentral]

I think the erase head may be linked to an oscillator. Magnets were used to erase way-back-when, but technology moved on.

I did make my own cassette loops years ago - 45% is the way to go. There is loads of info if you Google. You could try a small overlap - but make sure it runs the right way so the overlap doesnt catch. You can buy Copicat loops on Ebay - very good quality.

Have you thought about getting a reel to reel machine (or two) for some serious frippertronics?

You are completely insane to do what you are doing - but I salute you!

[geir_helgi]

I think the erase head may be linked to an oscillator. Magnets were used to erase way-back-when, but technology moved on.

I did make my own cassette loops years ago - 45% is the way to go. There is loads of info if you Google. You could try a small overlap - but make sure it runs the right way so the overlap doesnt catch. You can buy Copicat loops on Ebay - very good quality.

Have you thought about getting a reel to reel machine (or two) for some serious frippertronics?

You are completely insane to do what you are doing - but I salute you!

Alright, I'll try overlapping it a bit
I've got a Revox RTR and I know about Fripp and his 'tronics, hehe..
It's just a little too big for such a small thing, plus I like the lofi looping aspect of the cassette..

Crazy? Yeah, you gotta be a little crazy, right?
Otherwise new things don't happen

[drewl]

I did this on some old reel to reel machines I have, after reading about the Beatles recording sessions

I think the easy way, as frequency central suggested, is find the erase wring and wire it to a switch.

4track casette recorders basically do the same thing with the "punch in" feature.