I just bought a recording mic, I need opinions

[tehfunk]

Okay, I just dropped 100 bucks on a sennheiser e609, opted for it over the shure sm57, so I have two days to return if I it isn't what I want. Well, I am not sure, I think I like it, but I am new to this stuff. So, I made 2 sound clips of me doing my thang on the guitar (sucking). One is clean, and one id distorted. Tell me what you think. I know it's not a stomp box, but I plan on using a mic to record samples of the pedals I make or have, and I need prompt answers. Thanks! Note: the soundclips take a minute or two to download, I didn't realize how large the files were, but there both around 1 minute 30 to 2 minutes so not that long, I was just trying to show the range of sounds and how the mic responded.

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Schematics-etc/tehfunk/soundclips/e609+clean.wav.html

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Schematics-etc/tehfunk/soundclips/e609+crunch.wav.html

Edit: my recording setup is the mic, into a small mixer, into an m-audio recording sound card.

[rnfr]

for the cash, the e609 is a great mic for guitars.  sounds great on sax, too.  i use them all the time at the club i work at.  i say keep it.  the clip sounds fine.

[tehfunk]

for the cash, the e609 is a great mic for guitars.  sounds great on sax, too.  i use them all the time at the club i work at.  i say keep it.  the clip sounds fine.

thanks for the advice, any other input?

[flo]

Best is to try to get the sm57 "on loan" or something also so you can compare them at home. Record a sample through both of the mics and then compare. Only when comparing one can decide what sounds better. One mic on its own can sound good. Question is what sound better to you in a particular setup.
I recorded, for instance, a guitar track with an good large membrane tube mic (Røde NTk) and with an sm57 at the same time. Both recorded tracks sounded good. Switching between the recorded tracks I was able to hear clearly that the sm57 sounded better with that guitar sound in that particular mix.

[ayayay!]

I LOVE my e609 but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm anti-SM57 either.  I've found that the e609 likes to "breathe" a little more:  2.5 to 5 inches from the speaker, and just slightly off the center of the cone but still facing it flat.  Not at an angle.   

SM57's seem to like it right up against the grill cloth. 

It's all up to your ears. 

Are the recordings still there?  I can't seem to see them.

[fikri]

Best is to try to get the sm57 "on loan" or something also so you can compare them at home. Record a sample through both of the mics and then compare. Only when comparing one can decide what sounds better. One mic on its own can sound good. Question is what sound better to you in a particular setup.
I recorded, for instance, a guitar track with an good large membrane tube mic (Røde NTk) and with an sm57 at the same time. Both recorded tracks sounded good. Switching between the recorded tracks I was able to hear clearly that the sm57 sounded better with that guitar sound in that particular mix.

Yes, you should compare both of them if you want to make sure. I guess both of the mics are good, but in the end, it is just how good you can make use of it to present what sound you are particularly looking for.

[Krinor]

The clips sounds nice to me.

"Everyone" says the 57 is the only way. Don't listen to them. There are hundreds of other ways to record a guitar through an amp. Personally I use a ribbon mic placed far away from the amp. I like to record what I am actually hearing - in the room.

Someone said: "Cheap is expensive", and I agree with them to a certain degree - I often end up not using, or loosing money when I sell the cheaper equipment I've bought. But to counter this; someone else said (excuse me for the foul language): "Find power in the cheap shit", and I agree with them too. If you are happy with what you hear, the mic is probably excellent.

[PerroGrande]

For every mic, there are going to be people that love it and others that hate it.  What matters is how it sounds to you!  No matter what mic you buy, you ain't gonna please everybody, so there is no point in trying!

That said, I thought your clips sounded very good.  The mic was articulate, and responded nicely across the frequency range that was presented.  Not being present to do an "A/B" comparison with the recording vs. live, it is hard to say how "true" the reproduction is, but I didn't hear anything that was offensive to my ears.  I didn't hear any of the telltale signs of an annoying hump in the response curve, nor did I hear anything that lead me to believe that the mic's treble response was insufficient for the material.

What I couldn't determine was the mic's low-end response.  The clips weren't bass-heavy, so there wasn't much to tell if low-stuff would be problematic. 

[rnfr]

the mic itself was factory "tuned" for guitar amps.  this could be a good or a bad thing depending on what you like.  sometimes the factory guys really f it up.  for example, shure put out a snare mic a while ago that i have yet to find that anyone likes on snare. that being said, i find that the 609 brings out more of the midrange fullness that the 57 lacks.  not that i don't like the 57.  a 57 and a 609 paired up sound great.  the 57 gives the cutting highs, and the 609 fills it up.  the 57 sounds a bit more "grainy" to me as well-  it was designed quite a while ago. but,  this is a mic that we have all heard on guitar amps for almost half a century, so not only does that speak for it's value, but we are all very used to hearing an amp through an sm57.  you could say that it is ingrained on our rock and roll conciousness.  i made the switch from the 57 to the 609 for live sound a bit ago, mostly because it tends to not only bring out the mids, but it smooths out the highs as well.  in a world of crappy transistor amps and imperfect guitar tones, i find this is very helpful.  i used to always make miniscule cuts aroud 4k when using a 57.  now instead i can boost anywhere from 700hz to 4k without having to worry about harsh high end when working on consoles with limited eq options.  also i many times i can just cut a little between 200 and 400hz and i'll have a good tone with plenty of room for vox.  with a 57  i might not have to do that, but i might have to boost say some 1k, but then maybe have to cut 5k.  anyways, i hope this helps a little.  i'll shutup before i go on forever...

[tehfunk]

For every mic, there are going to be people that love it and others that hate it.  What matters is how it sounds to you!  No matter what mic you buy, you ain't gonna please everybody, so there is no point in trying!

That said, I thought your clips sounded very good.  The mic was articulate, and responded nicely across the frequency range that was presented.  Not being present to do an "A/B" comparison with the recording vs. live, it is hard to say how "true" the reproduction is, but I didn't hear anything that was offensive to my ears.  I didn't hear any of the telltale signs of an annoying hump in the response curve, nor did I hear anything that lead me to believe that the mic's treble response was insufficient for the material.

What I couldn't determine was the mic's low-end response.  The clips weren't bass-heavy, so there wasn't much to tell if low-stuff would be problematic. 

Interesting, my brother had the same input about bass, but then again he is not experienced with how it should sound; he doesn't play guitar, I might need to do some samples of just bass. I was playing sort of high up around the 7-12th frets when I was playing bottom notes.
Again, thanks for all the help, I'm gonna try it some more today, with it on a stand that I set up after I was done recording last night, I'll try moving it around and stuff and listen for the "best" sound, in those clips the mic was laying about a little more than a half inch from the grille cloth; it was the highly referred to "e609 drape" over the top of the amp because it is flat. I'll have to try it a few inches away, I was wondering whether the draping method was too close, or whether it was the best possible sound I could get. I am considering getting a sm57 "on loan", but I don't know. First, I have to finish my college apps, . When I do, I'm gonna play around with the e609, and if I find a sound I totally love, then I wont need to try an sm57, but if I feel something is missing then maybe I will buy and try. I will probably record some more samples later.

Question, is the "starting positition" right in the center of the speaker? or is it half way between that dome in the center and the surround? Also, is there a certain level I should or shouldn't be running the amp at, like how easy is it to break my e609, I heard dynamics are rugged, but I don't know what rugged means, lol, it's all relative, and I have no experience. Thanks!

[rnfr]

the pattern of the 609 actually shoots off to the left if you are holding it up and pointing it like a gun. so it is naturally off axis.  they say that the basic starting point is on the right side of the speaker, to the right of the cone a bit- if you want to roll off a bit of highs.  if you want to roll off some lows put it on the left of the cone.  the further back you pull it, the less bass response you will get due to the proximity effect.  i think that there are some good examples in the owner's manual.  it has the pickup pattern as well. you might want see if you can download it.

[tehfunk]

the pattern of the 609 actually shoots off to the left if you are holding it up and pointing it like a gun. so it is naturally off axis.  they say that the basic starting point is on the right side of the speaker, to the right of the cone a bit- if you want to roll off a bit of highs.  if you want to roll off some lows put it on the left of the cone.  the further back you pull it, the less bass response you will get due to the proximity effect.  i think that there are some good examples in the owner's manual.  it has the pickup pattern as well. you might want see if you can download it.

I have it, but when you say to the left of the cone or right of the cone, I don't get it because the cone is the basically the largest part of the speaker, do you mean the dome shaped thing in the center? And, what does the whole off axis thing mean, I can guess, but I want to be sure.

[Johan]

try this site for comparison of many mics...not in English, but I think you'll get it..
http://www.bandido-music.ch/Guitar_MIX2.htm  ( allthou I wonder if what I hear isn't the slight different in position of the mic's)

personally I'm a fan of the SM57 for the simple reason, it's a general purpose mic that works on allmost anything, just happens to be good on guitar and has a trackrecord that will be hard to beat for any mic..only thing to think about is, you need a popfilter for tracking vocals...

j

[.Mike]

Also, is there a certain level I should or shouldn't be running the amp at, like how easy is it to break my e609, I heard dynamics are rugged, but I don't know what rugged means, lol, it's all relative, and I have no experience. Thanks!

I'm no expert on mics having only used a small handful in limited situations, but dynamics are pretty darned durable. I couldn't find a maximum SPL listed for your mic, but I have read people and advertising copy that state 150dB. That is a huge amount of sound pressure.

For example, I use a dynamic mic made by Bob Heil called the PR-40 (excellent mic), and it spec'd to handle SPLs up to 125dB. It is the mic they used to record cannons and gunfire for the movie "Flags of our Fathers." They literally taped the mics to the side of guns/cannons and recorded the shots. If a 125dB SPL mic can handle the pressure generated by canon fire, my bet is that your mic can handle pretty much anything you can throw at it.

Keep your mic dry and clean and it will probably last you a long, long time.

[tehfunk]

Also, is there a certain level I should or shouldn't be running the amp at, like how easy is it to break my e609, I heard dynamics are rugged, but I don't know what rugged means, lol, it's all relative, and I have no experience. Thanks!

I'm no expert on mics having only used a small handful in limited situations, but dynamics are pretty darned durable. I couldn't find a maximum SPL listed for your mic, but I have read people and advertising copy that state 150dB. That is a huge amount of sound pressure.

For example, I use a dynamic mic made by Bob Heil called the PR-40 (excellent mic), and it spec'd to handle SPLs up to 125dB. It is the mic they used to record cannons and gunfire for the movie "Flags of our Fathers." They literally taped the mics to the side of guns/cannons and recorded the shots. If a 125dB SPL mic can handle the pressure generated by canon fire, my bet is that your mic can handle pretty much anything you can throw at it.

Keep your mic dry and clean and it will probably last you a long, long time.

that was pretty funny "They literally taped the mics to the side of guns/cannons and recorded the shots."

[petemoore]

  Recording cymbals or instruments with very low output creates more of a hurdle for mic/tech.
 Recording guitars is less demanding, there is usually plenty of SPL's and limited range of frequencies to capture, an SM57 can do fine.
 Anything else good is fine, something else may do 'it' for you.
 The EQ and gain/level controls on mixer/recorders as well as the other peripherals [comp etc.] may be of some use with any of these good mics.

[rnfr]

the pattern of the 609 actually shoots off to the left if you are holding it up and pointing it like a gun. so it is naturally off axis.  they say that the basic starting point is on the right side of the speaker, to the right of the cone a bit- if you want to roll off a bit of highs.  if you want to roll off some lows put it on the left of the cone.  the further back you pull it, the less bass response you will get due to the proximity effect.  i think that there are some good examples in the owner's manual.  it has the pickup pattern as well. you might want see if you can download it.

I have it, but when you say to the left of the cone or right of the cone, I don't get it because the cone is the basically the largest part of the speaker, do you mean the dome shaped thing in the center? And, what does the whole off axis thing mean, I can guess, but I want to be sure.

yeah - left/right of the dust cover/dome thingy.  off axis means simply tilting the mic right or left.  it usually messes with the polar pattern and allows you to tune the response a bit.

[sickbend]

the mics are tools you learn by listening to them what peaks they accent and where they don't replicate sound well. I wouldn't worry about the mic as much. If I was worried about recording I'd be much more worried about my education, mic preamp, quality eq, compressor/ limitior and if you have the option room treatment in that order learning how to record properly and the nature of sound as it applies to the mic and recording is abundently more important then the mic itself and everyone talking about mic position with that mic ive always just laid it over infront of the cab by the cord and moved it a lil off center using my ears to find a sweet spot just my two cents   

[Ronsonic]

try this site for comparison of many mics...not in English, but I think you'll get it..
http://www.bandido-music.ch/Guitar_MIX2.htm  ( allthou I wonder if what I hear isn't the slight different in position of the mic's)

personally I'm a fan of the SM57 for the simple reason, it's a general purpose mic that works on allmost anything, just happens to be good on guitar and has a trackrecord that will be hard to beat for any mic..only thing to think about is, you need a popfilter for tracking vocals...

j

That is a really cool link. Thanks.

The SM57 was also the US Presidential mic until just a few years ago with Secret Service guys carrying around a pair in their own case and installing them themselves.

[rnfr]

so dubya got rid of the 57?  yet another strike on his record.