DipTrace vs. Eagle

[waltk]

Hi All,
I've been using DipTrace (free version) to create schematics and PCB layouts, and I've figured how to use most of the features to get the results I want.  There are a couple things that I haven't been able to figure out.  The one thing I would like to do is to keep a "library" of circuit fragments that I can use to build new schematics with.  My ideal solution would be to merge two or more schematics, or copy and paste selected components (with their nets) from one schematic to another, but there doesn't seem to be any way to do this in DipTrace (at least not in the free version).  I was wondering if anyone knows how to do this, or whether Eagle has this functionality.  It seems like most folks prefer Eagle anyway.  Should I bite the bullet, and climb the Eagle learning curve, or stick with DipTrace?  Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

[Ice-9]

Yes you can copy and paste one part to another. A fantastic thing about diptrace is the help, weather you are a free user or registered user you can use the online help. I've used it a few times, once for the exact question you are asking. You just type in your question and you get an email answer of what to do.

Anyway you can copy one layout part to another, this is how its done.

1. Open up a layout. for me this is usually the pcb i have designed for the switch and jacks etc.

2. select it by dragging the mouse over the whol part so you have a box around it.

3. Right click and select copy

4. from the menu select open and open the circuit/ pcb you want to open

5. right click your mouse in blank space and select paste.

You now have the 2 parts of the pcb in one page where you can move them together and connect the nets that you want.


I think Diptrace is a fantastic program, so easy to learn and the autorouter is very good. Only thing i have a problem with is it can't make slotted component holes (eg for 2.1mm psu sockets) I have asked the makers through the help facility and they say that is one of the things they are working on for the next update.

[waltk]

Thanks for the quick reply.  I could swear that I had tried this (copy and paste method) before, and it hadn't worked.  I just now downloaded the latest version of DipTrace (1.50), and it works just as you described.  Thanks for your help Mick!

I have limited time to indulge my effect-building hobby, so it's kind of a big deal to have to invest the time to learn new software.  I'm still wondering whether there are other advantages to Eagle that would make it worth learning - like better component libraries, other features, or just being more widely used.  Does anyone who has used both DipTrace and Eagle have an opinion about this?

[R.G.]

I just looked at Diptrace. It looks very interesting. There's even a decent price on the whole mess. I'm interested in what they claim for autorouting, because I've never found a decent autorouter for analog stuff. But it will happen someday, I'm sure.

In any case, IMHO component libraries are interesting but not crucial. I vastly prefer a good footprint editor to enormous libraries, because I'm forever having to tinker with footprints to get them to match the vendor capabilities and assembly needs of layouts anyway. I have libraries with literally tens of thousands of parts in them, but what I actually use is my own adapted library of about fifty part footprints which I have made/adapted over time.

[waltk]

R.G. - I don't have experience with any other layout software, so I can't give a comparative response. 

If you decide to give DipTrace a try, be sure to play with the "AutoRouter Setup" options.  When I increase the optimizations and limits, it seems to produce better layouts - but takes significantly longer. 

I usually create layouts with thicker-than-usual traces because they give a better chance of producing usable PCBs with my home-etching method.  Changing the trace widths (and tolerances) will alter the autorouter results, so sometimes I use the autorouter with small traces to produce a pleasing layout, then fatten up the traces later.

The one thing that struck me as odd with the DipTrace autorouter is that it sometimes generates bends in traces when none should be required.  For example, I might intentionally line up the pads of particular components - expecting to get straight traces between them - and the autorouter will still throw in a bend near the pads.

Some quick tips about the user interface...

• if you can't seem to move/select things, the ESC key puts you back in the proper mode
• the "Route|Unroute All" menu item is convenient for starting over
• right-click a component and pick "Unroute Traces" to unroute the traces for that component

[Ice-9]

I've been using diptrace for a little while now and have done some component design using the editor for some of the standard components in footpedals, ie jacks, china blue switch etc. I don't know how good the autorouter is compared to other cads as i've never got that far with another programs.

Diptrace is so easy to use that i had a schematic and PCB done in a couple of hours (very first time i ever used diptrace). It will export to gerbers and import eagle stuff as well as others.

Anyway i'm not a sales man for diptrace so i'll leave it there.

[cloudscapes]

I just looked at Diptrace. It looks very interesting. There's even a decent price on the whole mess. I'm interested in what they claim for autorouting, because I've never found a decent autorouter for analog stuff. But it will happen someday, I'm sure.

I use it's autorouter for a first pass then edit manually afterwards. it *does* make some odd autorouting choices but the trace editing is thankfully quite intuitive and quick.

[R.G.]

In many cases for audio, just getting a copper trace from here to there will do. MOS  and JFET devices with insanely high input impedances can cause problems with that. Larger currents can cause problems with that too. But many times, like so many facets of effects electronics, you just get away with it.

Back in the dark ages I had a few courses on writing design automation software, so I have a little - very little - insight into how routers work. Given that, I'm not surprised at there being odd bends in places that should be straight.