Danelectro French Toast Re-housing problem (switch issue... should simple..)

[fattcamp]

Hello all. I am almost completed rehousing my french toast into a new enclosure with new pots/octave switch/dc jack/in and out jacks/and a 3pdt switch in hopes to true bypass and led as well. I'm following the usual wiring diagram (http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/images/3PDTwiring.jpg) but unsure on this one....

I have to hit the switch 2X to turn on or off the pedal. that's the only issue... i wasn't really sure where the spots on the board went on the 3pdt switch so i just eye-balled it and the effect works perfectly when engaged and off.... but have to hit the pedal 2X. switching to a dpdt shouldn't make a difference. anyone heard of this?

I realize that the pedal is most likely not actually true-bypassed. at this point, i'm really only concerned with getting the switch to do what it's supposed to do. thanks all

-dave

[danielzink]

That's because you need a "momentary" switch - and unfortunately - they don't come in a 3PDT configuration. I know this because it was one of my stumbling blocks when I rehoused my First act Delay - exact same problem. You have two choices - wire it with a momentary switch (avail. at SmallBear) or wire it to be "on" all the time and then run to the 3PDT. EIther way - I don't think you can run a 3PDT (alone) without eliminating the switching board and sorting out a bias supply for the main board on the Dano pedal.


Dan

[jefe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the factory switch a momentary switch? If you directly replaced it with a latching 3pdt, that could be your problem. I think.

I've got a Chili Dog that I'd like to re-house, so I'd be interested in how your project turns out.

[craigjames]

i came across the same problem when i wanted to make my danelectro spring king tru bypass. i left the existing switch and added a 3pdt switch. i  leave the momentary on all the time and switch true bypass on and off with the 3pdt

[craigjames]

[fattcamp]

Thanks so much for the info guys! I'd still like to true-bypass it... so if i replace the original switch on the board, where do i get the correct wires to wire with this diagram?

http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/images/3PDTwiring.jpg

I know which cables run to the switches, so i can take care of the bottom/middle rows on the switch, but i'm not sure where to get the +9v or in/out's from. Do i take the 9v from the existing clip or something? I'm pretty terrible at schem's and i just wanted to rehouse a pedal for a friend. thanks all!

-Dave

[DavidRavenMoon]

True bypass is not always the best thing to do.  Unfortunately it's become a fad of sorts.

To make that true bypass, forget the switch that is part of the circuit board, you need to wire in a switch around the circuit board, i.e., it will bypass the circuit board.  But you'll have to make sure the circuit is always engaged when you first plug it in.

You can get momentary action push button switches though.

[danielzink]

Back to my post above - if you want to "true bypass" it and utilize a 3pdt - you'll need to eliminate the stock switching board and it's related buffers - then you need to sort a bias supply for the main board (+4.5v), then on the 3pdt you'll need 1m dropdown resistor(s) for "pop".

Dan

[craigjames]

True bypass is not always the best thing to do.  Unfortunately it's become a fad of sorts.

that is true, but for a lot of pedals, including my spring king, the tone was changed in bypass mode for the worse

[jefe]

Thanks so much for the info guys! I'd still like to true-bypass it... so if i replace the original switch on the board, where do i get the correct wires to wire with this diagram?

You can't just replace the original switch on the board and turn it into a true bypass pedal. Here's a simple way to look at it:



Note how he still has a momentary switch to "arm" the pedal.

Hope this helps. 

[fattcamp]

Thanks all for the updated info. Much appreciated! I would like true bypassing, but sounds like i'll need to fiddle with biasing and whatnot. If i just want a solid switch, i just need to get the same sort of switch that's in the unit and mount to the enclosure by the sounds of it.. correct?

Also, If I use the same sort of switch and forget about the true bypas deal, is there an easy way to add an led to the unit still without too much hassle?

-dave

[Processaurus]

adding LED (with stock electronic switching):
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=68453.0

I would leave the stock switching intact and use a momentary footswitch if it were my deal, the switching circuit is quite good, CMOS analog switches and tl072 buffers.

If you do go with the true bypass that dano drawing is for a different series pedal, but close.  You can forego dano's "arm" switch by simply shorting it out (like it's being pressed down always), I believe (from other's TBing their danelectros around here), and it should power up with the cmos switching switched to effect and not bypass.

[dano12]

adding LED (with stock electronic switching):
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=68453.0

I would leave the stock switching intact and use a momentary footswitch if it were my deal, the switching circuit is quite good, CMOS analog switches and tl072 buffers.

If you do go with the true bypass that dano drawing is for a different series pedal, but close.  You can forego dano's "arm" switch by simply shorting it out (like it's being pressed down always), I believe (from other's TBing their danelectros around here), and it should power up with the cmos switching switched to effect and not bypass.

Hey Ben, were you able to get the shunted power idea to work consistently? The reason I did the arm switch was that shorting out the built in switch pads didn't always debounce correctly, especially when applying power to the pedal after it had been unpowered for a while. It may have just been that specific fabecho I was mucking with, but I recall there was an issue....<foggy brain>

[Processaurus]

adding LED (with stock electronic switching):
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=68453.0

I would leave the stock switching intact and use a momentary footswitch if it were my deal, the switching circuit is quite good, CMOS analog switches and tl072 buffers.

If you do go with the true bypass that dano drawing is for a different series pedal, but close.  You can forego dano's "arm" switch by simply shorting it out (like it's being pressed down always), I believe (from others TBing their danelectros around here), and it should power up with the cmos switching switched to effect and not bypass.

Hey Ben, were you able to get the shunted power idea to work consistently? The reason I did the arm switch was that shorting out the built in switch pads didn't always debounce correctly, especially when applying power to the pedal after it had been unpowered for a while. It may have just been that specific fabecho I was mucking with, but I recall there was an issue....<foggy brain>

I'm glad you called me on that, I hadn't ever looked into it, looking at a schematic including the danelectro switching (pepperoni phaser) I could see how it could end up in a random state of bypass, since all it does is ground the clock pin of the 4013 flip flop.  Dusting off the thinking cap here...

So the real way to make the the danelectro's always be switched on stone cold (hint to the true bypassers, this should apply to all the danelectro pedals) is to leave the switch alone, and tie the A channel control pin (11) on the 4053 high permanently rather than to the logic coming out of the 4013 flip flop chip.  One way to do that is to cut the trace from pin 11 on the 4053 to the 4013 flip flop chip with an exacto knife, and then run a little wire from there (the now floating pin 11) up to +9v on pin 16.  If the trace goes under the chip, and one can't get mutilate it,  then lift the pin up in the air and kludge the wire on there.

I got  that by looking at the truth table of the 4053 datasheet and the pepperoni schematic, a hi signal on the A control line (pin 11 on the 4053) will switch pin 14 ( output jack) to pin 13 (effect output).

I'll try to double check a busted french toast I have to see if they are indeed using channel/switch A for the bypass (rather than B or C), but the that's the idea.

[monkmiles]

Bumping an old thread...

What's the general opinion on how easy it is to rehouse a French Toast?

I'm considering getting one and rehousing it as my very first project. To rehousing it with a 3pdt switch and leave the momentary switch there and turned on. Any chance there's a guide or instructions for this very thing for a newbie like me?

[Processaurus]

I rehoused a fab metal recently (to add an extra footswitch and knob) and it took about 4 hours from start of the idea to the finish.  I left the electronic switching in and used one of the "soft touch" metal momentary stompswitches from smallbear electronics, it is really cool, better feeling than the regular stompswitches if you like to press rather than stomp.  That's it on the left.

The pots are weird little trimpots (different than the fab metal's pcb mount pots with shafts) with funny plastic knobs that squish into the top of them, if you were rehousing it I would get new pots (look at the Foxx tone machine schematic for the values/tapers), also maybe make the octave switch a footswitch.

The rehousing thing is usually electronically simple, but mechanically complex.  It's about 2/3rds of the work as making a pedal from scratch.

[petemoore]

What's the general opinion on how easy it is to rehouse a French Toast?
 I'd have to suggest that it's easier not to. Not rehousing it allows FT reliability and the sound of the TM in a nice, small package, reasonable enough to simply replace if necessary.
I'm considering getting one and rehousing it as my very first project. To rehousing it with a 3pdt switch and leave the momentary switch there and turned on.
  The effect should sound exactly the same when on, execpt for possible clunkiness or failure of mechanical switching.  
 Any chance there's a guide or instructions for this very thing for a newbie like me?
 Instead I'd suggest take a look at a mod pot Mark Hammer added, allowing adjustability to the notch filter, build a French Toast [Foxx Tone Machine] or something else, house and use it.

[wavley]

i came across the same problem when i wanted to make my danelectro spring king tru bypass. i left the existing switch and added a 3pdt switch. i  leave the momentary on all the time and switch true bypass on and off with the 3pdt

+1 I do the same thing, I was thinking about doing my own french toast this way, just gotta get 'round to it

[lowell]

Hey guys,
        I just rehoused an FT w/ true bypass, LED, and a stomp octave switch.  The pedal is switching well and bypass and effect signals work.  Here's the issue though.  When the effect is on there is a low frequency oscillation and it's loud.  I still get sound through the pedal, distortion etc...

Regarding the post by Processaurus about permanently turning on the original switching.  The 4053 chip seems to have pins 11,12,13 all hard wired via traces.  I disconnected all 3 of those pins by cutting the trace and connected them to pin 16 (+9v).  I'm thinking this is what's causing the issue.  Please advise, maybe I should keep pins 12,13 connected to the other IC?  Or disconnect them altogether?

[Processaurus]

  The 4053 chip seems to have pins 11,12,13 all hard wired via traces.  I disconnected all 3 of those pins by cutting the trace and connected them to pin 16 (+9v).  I'm thinking this is what's causing the issue.  Please advise, maybe I should keep pins 12,13 connected to the other IC?  Or disconnect them altogether?

Yes, connecting pins 12 and 13 to +9v will certainly cause problems, they are the two throws on the analog SPDT switch, and audio goes through them, so right now your audio is being connected directly to the power supply.  Look over the pepperoni phaser linked to above and you'll see the 4043 down in the lower left corner, and how the audio is running through it.  12 and 13 should stay connected to their traces, to keep the audio running through the analog switch correctly.

Only pin 11, the control line for the switch, should be disconnected from the circuit and re-routed to +9v.  This makes it so the switch is always in the effect on state (pin 13, from the effect, is switched to be connected to pin 14, the output).

Make sense?