Finishing a Pedal With Clear Nail Polish?

[Will Dandy]

So, I tried to roughly follow the Beavis audio box in a day and had a bit of a mess on my hands......

I sanded my enclosure and used Rustoleum paint, and then hand painted a design on top of it in acrylic, so far all was well. 

I then used a Krylon spray on clear coat acrylic finish a day later (today), and it was wrinkle city, and if I pushed on it the paint came off.  Basically a total disaster..... so.....

Now I've sanded the box back to it's original unfinished metal, and have re-painted it.  I'm trying to finish this for tomorrow, and am worried about having another clear coat disaster.  I know some people use clear nail polish on top of some peel off lettering etc when making pedals.  Anyone ever use it on a whole pedal?  Is this crazy?  I don't need it to look like the most pro thing ever, just trying to get this done in a short amount of time, etc. 

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!  And I am trying to finish this in the next 20 hours! (yikes)

Thanks!

[Nitefly182]

You cant rush paint. No matter what you do you probably wont be able to get anything resembling a good or hard finish in the next 20 hours. You need to look at recoat times for the various paints and let each type cure completely before you move onto the next finish. Once you spray your clear you should wait several days or a week before you try assembling the pedal.

[Will Dandy]

hmmm, fair enough, so was my mistake adding the clear coat before the paint was fully set even though it had been 24 hours?  I didn't bake it in an oven (i'm trying to get one to use)

[Nitefly182]

hmmm, fair enough, so was my mistake adding the clear coat before the paint was fully set even though it had been 24 hours?  I didn't bake it in an oven (i'm trying to get one to use)

You may have been using paints that were generally imcompatible. 24 hours is also not a lot of time for a complete cure. Especially for an oil-based paint. Some of those finishes might not be completely cured even a month later.

[Barcode80]

in addition, for good adhesion you need to wetsand between coats, particularly between the paint and clear coats. this will keep the clear from wrinkling up in a lot of cases.

[Processaurus]

in addition, for good adhesion you need to wetsand between coats, particularly between the paint and clear coats. this will keep the clear from wrinkling up in a lot of cases.

I think Will meant that the clear made the paint underneath wrinkle, I've had that happen before.  People here that know more about paint were saying that it is from the solvent in the clear (in the paint to keep it from drying up in the can) acting as the same solvent that the colored paint uses.  Solutions offered to me were to use a different clear coat or wait for the color paint to dry a long time, and/or use really thin coats of the clear at first.

[Will Dandy]

wow, i had no idea it could take so long for a complete cure to happen!  is that the case even when using a toaster oven? 

also, forgive my ignorance, but what is 'wetsand' ?

[Barcode80]

wow, i had no idea it could take so long for a complete cure to happen!  is that the case even when using a toaster oven? 

also, forgive my ignorance, but what is 'wetsand' ?

wet sanding is sanding with a bit of water on the sandpaper. you generally need the sandpaper to say "wet or dry" on the back or your sandpaper will fall apart when you wet it.

[Mark Hammer]

"Cured" takes longer than "dry to the touch".  Basically, if you can still smell what you sprayed on, it ain't cured yet.

I've had more than my fair share of paint+clearcoat=wrinklecity experiences.  In most cases, I think it was because I spied an interesting colour at a cheap price and went ahead and used it, ignoring what kind of paint it was.  In some instances, it may well have been a poor choice of clearcoat.  The two have to play nice together.

Having said that, they don't play nice together when the colour coat underneath hasn't fully cured, and the clearcoat applied is applied in thick layers without having time to cure either.  Some years back, Zachary Vew detailed the steps involved in providing those gorgeous rich glossy paint jobs on his pedals, and the prepping, pplication, and curing of the multiple coats took damn near a week....with machines to expedite the process.

So I guess the magic ingredient is......patience.....dammit.   I wish I knew where to buy that.

[Captainobvious99]

Didn't I read something about using a clear epoxy resin over the top of acryllic painted enclosures? I was going to attempt that with my upcoming builds as I figured it would provide the hardest clear coat over the paint. Acryllic artist paint dries and cures very quickly and is a medium I'm familiar with using/applying since I do a bit of canvas painting from time to time.
While I like the solid color painted enclosures I get from PPP, I think adding a bit of personal flare to them will really put them over the top.

[m-theory]

Your products certainly aren't compatible in the least...alkyd enamel to acrylic to lacquer.  However, I suspect that you'd have gotten away with it, had you not baked.  Unless you've got really good ventilation to go along with it, the baking tends to merely skin over the surface and trap wet solvents underneath, which, of course, rear their ugly heads when you attempt to apply anything over the baked finish.  ESPECIALLY if you wet sand, btw.  Wet sanding would open up that top film and REALLY expose those wet solvents underneath. 

I honestly don't know how people get away with baking, because I've never had one that didn't result in utter, abysmal failure, like yours.  I know that people do it somehow, but I've never been able to make it work, so I just quit trying.  It's not worth the BS at all.

Here's what I've gotten used to doing, and it works VERY well for me: 

1)  Drill holes
2)  Sand prep the metal
3)  Acid etch the metal (this stuff is nasty and costly...paint store-only type of stuff, but it does help adhesion...probably not at all necessary for pedals, frankly)
4)  Thoroughly wash and dry the box, then use a paint prep material or alcohol, and a clean, dry, lint-free rag, to clean the surface
5)  Prime with a surfacing/sandable primer - I'll apply 3-4 coats of this, usually, because these boxes tend to be a bit rough
6)  Allow to dry enough to sand smooth - usually 30-45 minutes or so, air dry, will do it. 
7)  Apply topcoat (s)
  Apply 2 part clear

I do all of this within a period of about 1-1/2 hours, so I'm not allowing substrates to get into their sensitive window, where fresh solvents will attack and eat them.  If you cannot get your spraying done within that window, you have to wait a few days between coats, and you should then either lightly abrade the substrate with a very fine (1500g or so) sandpaper, or apply an adhesion promoter first. 

The clear I use is a two-part acrylic epoxy of some sort that I buy in the varnish section of a hardware store.  If you ask for epoxy, they'll send you to the glue aisle.  You have to ask for a two part varnish-like product, and then they'll know what you're talking about.  For some reason, they can't get it through their heads that epoxies are used for coating materials AND glues...sigh.

This clear is extremely thick, and requires VERY careful measurement and preparation.  You MUST follow the directions to the letter, or it will not cure properly.  You pour it on, and it flows forever.  Once you've got it applied, you either blow across it or hit it with a blow dryer, to knock out the air bubbles and get rid of the excess film.  Then, you have to spend the next 30-45 minutes or so monitoring it, to remove drips from the edges, make sure it's laying down nicely, and make sure there aren't any huge boogers in it.  Within 30 minutes or so, you can still remove a booger and reapply clear, and get it to flow nicely.  Much beyond that, and you're pretty much stuck with what you've got. 

I love this clear, but it has a personality that takes some getting used to.  One coat of it equals 50 coats of varnish, so it's incredibly thick...think Karo syrup.  And, it stays open and wet for a LONG, LONG, LONG time...we're talking 2-3 hours, at least.  This leaves it a dust magnet for quite some time, but I've sorta figured out how to get around that issue.  I use those disposable tinfoil-like cake pans that have a clear plastic lid.  I've used one for many different pedals, and then, when it seems like I've used it enough, just toss it out and grab a new one.

I use upside-down plastic cups as pedestals, and I position the parts to clearcoat on these cups.  As soon as I've applied the clear and blown away the air bubbles and excess material, I put the clear cake pan cover on and walk away.  I check it in about 10 minutes, then again about 10 minutes later, and again about 10 minutes after that.  Each time I check it, I use a plastic spoon to carefully scoop away the excess material dripping off the edges.  By the third time, there isn't much excess left to remove.  Once I'm certain that I've handled the hangers, I just cover it again and walk away from it until the next day. 

You can handle it, gently, in about 16-20 hours, but you won't be able to build on it for at least 24-36 hours.  Once it cures (and, this is a REAL cure, because it's two part, and the end product is 100% non-rewettable), it's hard as a rock.  It can get a bit brittle over time, and it does yellow slightly with age, so it's really not "ideal," but it's one helluva lot better than the crappy lacquer spray bomb clears.  The only thing that I know of that'd be better would be automotive clearcoat, but that stuff is unGodly expensive. 

[Mark Hammer]

I find the secret to baking is to spray on thin layers and re-bake.  You're quite right that baking a thick paint layer doesn't really put you farther ahead.

[m-theory]

I find the secret to baking is to spray on thin layers and re-bake. 

That's the only way I could imagine making it work, and then you're talking a considerable amount of time to finish.  Once my primer has been sanded, I can do a two-stage color coat application and be dumping clear within about 20 minutes, and I'm done. 

[jefe]

So, is clear nail polish out of the question? 

I haven't even tried to paint any of my boxes. I hate spray painting, because i always seem to screw it up. And then I read threads like this, and it seems like a big hassle.

Besides, naked aluminum is sexy. 

[Kearns892]

So, is clear nail polish out of the question? 

I haven't even tried to paint any of my boxes. I hate spray painting, because i always seem to screw it up. And then I read threads like this, and it seems like a big hassle.

Besides, naked aluminum is sexy. 

I agree with that, if I just wanted to transfer some decals onto the metal what would be the best course of action as far as protection, clear Rust-oleum enamel spray paint, or something more "homebrew" like clear nail polish?

[m-theory]

Go for nail polish, if you want.  I've had no experience with it, with which to guide you, however.  

Painting isn't that hard.  It just takes some patience and adherence to some basic rules of thumb, that's all.  

[m-theory]

if I just wanted to transfer some decals onto the metal what would be the best course of action as far as protection, clear Rust-oleum enamel spray paint, or something more "homebrew" like clear nail polish?

It's pretty hard to say what nail polish would do to decals, or how it would adhere or hold up, either on decals or bare aluminum.  Aluminum is a very difficult substrate upon which to get adhesion from anything, so who knows? 

[jefe]

I agree with that, if I just wanted to transfer some decals onto the metal what would be the best course of action as far as protection, clear Rust-oleum enamel spray paint, or something more "homebrew" like clear nail polish?

Not from the world of pedal building, but... I used to work on railcars. Any time we had to apply a decal, we put some stuff around the edges called "edge sealer" (don't remember the brand name). It reminded me of clear nail polish. Obviously, the intent was only to keep the edges of the decal from coming up. Mind you, this was on the undercarriage of the cars... very dirty, very harsh conditions... if it's good enough for that, it ought to be ok for pedals.

I'm just frustrated right now with my current build... I've spent many hours trying to make the enclosure look good, and haven't even perfed the circuit yet. I think I'm just going to slap a decal on there, seal the edges, and call it a day.

[Captainobvious99]

m-theory,
Thanks for your very informative post. I think this is how I will be attacking my enclosures. Does the two part clear epoxy react well with a standard acryllic artist-style paint?

I was thinking sand, primer, hand paint, and finish with the 2 part epoxy. Which type/brand of readily available sprayable primer would you recommend?

Thanks !!

[Barcode80]

epoxy should work with anything, you are essentially just pouring liquid plastic over the paint so it doesn't really react negatively to any paint. PITA to mix though.