Belton BTDR-1H Digital Reverb Module

~arph · March 31, 2009, 10:27:55 AM

My guess would be short after hearing some samples.. It does sound better then my test setup, so there are some differences. Mr Lee sys he mods the modules before using them, seems unlikely after reading doug's comments.

dantahoua · March 31, 2009, 10:41:46 AM

I don't know if it's modded but there is a "Mister Springgy" sticker on the BTDR, so I can't see what module it is... But I'm sure we could design something good around this module, just have to find the good values!! I'm not home now, but I will post some guts pictures, even if there is a lot of goop, it could give us some strating point.

~arph · March 31, 2009, 10:49:30 AM

Thnx, that would be great.

Did anyone compare the three versions?

Regards,

Arnoud

dantahoua · April 06, 2009, 01:42:25 PM

Here is a first shot. You can see the goop that fasten the BTDR to the enclosure on the left, and some goop that fasten the pcb to the enclosure... In fact it seems there is no goop on the pcb's component but removing the pcb from the enclosure seems to be impossible without breaking it...

I'll try to see a little further... This pedal is sooooo great!

~arph · April 07, 2009, 04:00:22 AM

Ah good, is the belton sticker still underneath there?

Messy wiring btw, look at the cap at the power supply

dantahoua · April 07, 2009, 07:53:58 AM

Yup, even if the sound is great, it should not be sold that price!!!!

The original sticker is under the other one, but they are well stick together... Would be great if we could make something similar but far less expensive... I would like to have another one for my second board...

~arph · April 07, 2009, 09:40:19 AM

Perhaps you can take a sneak peak at one of the sides under the sticker, you should be able to tell which belton module it is. There is a small S M L indication at the very edge of the original sticker.

BTW. You can almost get the exact thing by building the pedal from the schematic at smallbear. I've tweaked the opamp section going into the module a bit. I'll look it up and tell you what I used/changed.

Nasse · April 12, 2009, 05:25:37 AM

Just took first tests from this Belton box and sounds much like a spring reverb. I dont have a filter in there yet.

Taylor · April 12, 2009, 01:46:02 PM

Quote from: ~arph on March 31, 2009, 09:23:22 AM
You can hear long pulsating delays in the reverb.

FWIW, you can hear discrete delays in real spring reverb, too.

JKowalski · April 12, 2009, 07:57:01 PM

Quote from: Taylor on April 12, 2009, 01:46:02 PM
Quote from: ~arph on March 31, 2009, 09:23:22 AM
You can hear long pulsating delays in the reverb.

FWIW, you can hear discrete delays in real spring reverb, too.

You definitely can - in some more then others. I have a SR-101 Pioneer spring reverb, and one reverb channel is nice an mostly clean but the other is practically a delay!

When you input a sig into a spring tank, it travels to the other side, bounces off, travels to the other side, bounces, and so on, so you still hear that signal every time the signal comes back to the pickup. What makes it a reverb, is the massive amounts of extra reflections along the spring that are typically quieter then the "primary" bounce.

Anyone have some sound clips/videos of something they did with this thing?

Taylor · April 12, 2009, 08:59:16 PM

Here's the Lee Jackson "Mr. Springgy":

http://www.leejackson.com/mp3/MRSpringgy-Live.mp3

And here's the Malekko "Spring Chicken" which seems likely to be based on the Belton since it just popped up, has the same price as the Lee Jackson pedal, and they say "we didn't invent this chip, but we made it sound great".

http://www.malekkoheavyindustry.com/index.php?page=spring-chicken

solderman · April 13, 2009, 03:04:08 AM

Quote from: Salvatore on February 19, 2009, 09:02:16 AM
One could try to play guitar through it, I'm pretty sure it will interact that way.
(Have not tried it, but it looks like a very cheep deal)
But I know what you mean, kicking you're equipment ads to the musical experience,, for instants,,
I used to use my singer in the conventional way, which sometimes was boring, so I started kicking him,,
The sounds that generated where truly spectacular, and I never have been able to recreate those squeaks and grunts with diy, digital ore otherwise.
So instead of going vintage and ask that singer back (I don't really want him, he is such a whiner, complaining about bruises and such), the only other solution I could think of was to use a sampling devise, which I can kick, to get the spring thunder sounds and such.
(Pauses to make a cup of coffee *insert elevator music*)

Ah thats better, trying to wake up, sorry for that,,
Uhm yeah, nothing beats a spring reverb besides a better spring reverb, although you might prefer the not better one (whatever that means), and I love the clanking of metal it does.
I love all the other music devises to, as long as it processes sound, and does not ad to much (unwanted) noise, I'm interested.
Almost every effect has it's own special charm.

(DANGER, ridicules humor alert, read with cautious scepticism)

Thank you Sooooooo much for this comment . It's Easter Monday morning when a am reading this and I am at my contry house and eating breakfast, the sun is shining bright , no clouds, it's spring and 15 deg C and I have laughed for 40 minutes and my abdominal has gone past its best now. This is going to be a perfect day.
Again thanks a mill pal.

//Solderman

solderman · April 13, 2009, 04:13:46 AM

Hi
I have checked this out and I agree that the PT239x is the most probable candidate inside. To build a pedal around this gadget seams to go over the stream for water. I wold suggest the FV-1 :: SPN1001 from Spin Semiconductors http://www.spinsemi.com/products.html since it has all you need and a bunch of more digital sounds. like reverb, chorus, pitch shift etc. in a singel IC and with a low count of surrounding components to a relatively low cost. The footprint is also better for a stompbox Hammond BB size.

//Solderman

dantahoua · April 13, 2009, 01:12:57 PM

Funny, I prefer the Malekko sound compare to my Lee Jackson (just after seeing the video...). The Malekko is less expensive too, would like to know what is inside (with the Belton...

) I try to unstick the 2 stickers, but I'm not able, sorry, the glue remove the wrting of the original stickers...

neunaber · April 16, 2009, 01:45:00 PM

Quote from: solderman on April 13, 2009, 04:13:46 AM
Hi
I have checked this out and I agree that the PT239x is the most probable candidate inside. To build a pedal around this gadget seams to go over the stream for water. I wold suggest the FV-1 :: SPN1001 from Spin Semiconductors http://www.spinsemi.com/products.html since it has all you need and a bunch of more digital sounds. like reverb, chorus, pitch shift etc. in a singel IC and with a low count of surrounding components to a relatively low cost. The footprint is also better for a stompbox Hammond BB size.

//Solderman

Have you heard the built in effects in the FV-1? They aren't very good, IMO. Even SpinSemi admits they are only for demonstration purposes. The FV-1 is only useful if you know DSP and can write custom algorithms for it.

The Belton BTDR-1 reverb is much more musical sounding and is less expensive when considering the total system cost.

tiges_ tendres · April 16, 2009, 02:27:09 PM

Unrelated, but I wondered why they say this:

The VisualSound 1SPOT 9v DC power supply is NOT compatible with MALEKKO EKKO pedals. Use of this power supply will void manufacturer warrantee.

http://www.malekkoheavyindustry.com/index.php?page=echo-300b

~arph · April 17, 2009, 03:35:53 AM

I think that tells more about melekko's design than the 1spot.

Uma Floresta · April 17, 2009, 06:43:39 AM

I believe he's upgraded all his pedals so they're compatible.

Cliff Schecht · August 05, 2009, 03:25:43 AM

You guys can say what you will about Lee Jackson's pedals but the man knows his stuff. He stops by the PAiA office to ship/receive packages and we usually get to talking about the different guitar pedals he's working on or having problems with. He's the kind of guy that can offer a lot of insight into anything that you talk with him about. Very cool guy, but I was definitely a bit starstruck when I first met him.

We got to talking today about the BTDR-1H delay modules that he uses in his delay pedals. As it turns out, these devices are NOT bucket brigade delays as many people seem to think but are, in fact, completely digital delays. The datasheet is quick to point out that this is a digital device. Another thing he pointed out is that out of the 1000 or so modules he orders at a time, about 1/3rd of them are unacceptably noisy and another 1/3rd are fairly noisy, with the last bit being the useful ones that go in his pedals. He has to hand sort every device to find ones that are usable and I'm sure by now has a large collection of unusable delay modules. His big problem is that the manufacturer REFUSES to acknowledge that there is a consistency problem from device to device and won't allow the unusable devices to be returned/traded. The reason I bring this up is because I remember reading Paul Morossy's post about building a GGG project based off of the BTDR-1H and was having some noise problems with his pedal. It may not have been the op amp but, in fact, the delay module. If anybody else has had a problem with their BTDR-1's being too noisy then please let me know, Lee could use some backup in getting the manufacturer to produce a product that actually performs as specified.

~arph · August 05, 2009, 03:53:30 AM

Well yes, I had noise issues, see reply #17. I had this with both untits I ordered. So i thought it was to do with the circuitry around it.

btw.I find it funny to see that PT2399 delays are sometimes still marketed as analog or 'between analog and digital' delays. This is just a side note and has nothing to do with the topic

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Belton BTDR-1H Digital Reverb Module