MN3007 ADA Flanger Clone Questions

[Skruffyhound]

TR4 and TR5?

Yep, would love to hear your fix Larry

Instead of trying to nail specific numbers, how does it sound to you?

I hear what you are saying. I'll try to complete the rest of the setup and go round a couple of times adjusting the range.

[armdnrdy]

Hey Aston and Charlie,

I built the SAD version based on the moosapotamus project files and numerous threads. I routed my own board and moved a few things around to where I was able to fit it in a 125BB enclosure.

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/diyuser/ADA+Flanger.jpg.html

When I tried to adjust TR4 and TR5 to the factory specs, just like so many have posted, I was unable to reach those values at the same time. I would adjust one trimmer to one point, and then adjust the other but  it would change the original point! It just wasn't do able!

After reviewing the original factory schematics, I noticed a change that goes back to the Irwin/Giles MN3010 to SAD1024 retrofit schematic. This change doesn't seem to have anything to do with the BBD retrofit, so I changed the values to the factory drawing and was able to get the required set points.

If you look at the factory drawing Rev. 4 you'll see that C29 is 51pf (not 39pf) and R69 is 1M (not 2.2M)

Make the component changes and you'll be able to reach the factory set up specs.

Also, while we're on the subject.
I saw a lot of talk in the old threads about the Threshold not working correctly or at all......My fix....Use the proper JFET!
The 2N4393 is still available, as is the PN4393. I believe that the threshold circuit is designed around this particular JFET. I have switched JFETS and the only one that truly works is the 4393.

Hope this helps!

[moosapotamus]

I built the SAD version based on the moosapotamus project files and numerous threads. I routed my own board and moved a few things around to where I was able to fit it in a 125BB enclosure.

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/diyuser/ADA+Flanger.jpg.html

Wow, cool! No guts, no glory. Let's see 'em.

When I tried to adjust TR4 and TR5 to the factory specs, just like so many have posted, I was unable to reach those values at the same time. I would adjust one trimmer to one point, and then adjust the other but  it would change the original point! It just wasn't do able!

Thanks, Larry. I don't believe that changing C29/R69 values will change the interaction between TR4 and TR5, but if it helps dialing in a frequency range that is more pleasing to your ears, that's great!

I'd like to hear about the results if you try it, Aston.

Also, while we're on the subject.
I saw a lot of talk in the old threads about the Threshold not working correctly or at all......My fix....Use the proper JFET!
The 2N4393 is still available, as is the PN4393. I believe that the threshold circuit is designed around this particular JFET. I have switched JFETS and the only one that truly works is the 4393.

Yeah, kinda cool what happens when you use the right components.
The Threshold also works a lot better if you use a 100K pot instead of 10K.

~ Charlie

[Govmnt_Lacky]

I built my 3007 version according to moose specs EXCEPT with the 100K Threshold mod. I was able to dial in TR4 and TR5 to almost perfect! 

Did you try using multi turn pots for those values?

BTW... still have some 2N4393s on hand if anyone needs one for a build 

[armdnrdy]

Wow, cool! No guts, no glory. Let's see 'em.



Thanks, Larry. I don't believe that changing C29/R69 values will change the interaction between TR4 and TR5,

I don't think that it changed the interaction between TR4 and TR5, I know it did! As I stated, I was unable to achieve the factory points until I changed those values. I wasn't even able to get close! After the change I achieved the points spot on!


Here's the glory!

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/diyuser/Flanger+1024+gut+shot.JPG.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

@Larry,

Looks groovy! 

Any chance of sharing that layout?

What are the finished PCB dimensions?

[Skruffyhound]

Right, looks like I've got something to work with. Thanks a lot guys. I'm on it right after I get me some dinner.

[armdnrdy]

Govmnt_Lacky,

Thanks for the compliment! But thanks should go the Charlie, Old school, Irwin, Giles, and anyone else who I'm forgetting for doing all of the heavy lifting!

Sure I'll share the layout. Do you use Eagle by any chance? The best thing for good quality, correct sized prints is to use the actual Eagle files. Let me know.

This is a double sided board. A few hits and misses with alignment and you'll get it. I tape the two board layouts on the double side copper clad board, drill alignment holes through both layouts and the board, and then use a straight pin in each corner to align for the transfer. You can usually tell by the alignment holes versus the printed holes if you're in the ball park. If not, wipe the toner with acetone and try it again. I have it down to a couple of attempts before I get it right.

The PCB dimensions are 4" X 3 1/4". The board fits on the bottom lid of the enclosure.

I almost forgot. Which version would you like? I have the SAD, the MN3007, and the original MN3010 worked up in files. I wanted to A/B the different builds. I have all of the components to build the other two versions but I keep getting caught up in other projects!

[Govmnt_Lacky]

@Larry

Darn It!!!

Don't use Eagle, Don't do double sided boards!!! 

Share and share alike though. Someone may be able to benefit! (Maybe even me someday  )

[armdnrdy]

I didn't do double sided boards either but.....

If somebody who reads this can give me some direction as to the best format and way to post usable files, I'll be glad to share.

I've downloaded too many board files that are just not usable. That's why I draw up a schematic and route ALL of my boards now. It also helps me to get acquainted with each individual build.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

I didn't do double sided boards either but.....

This is a double sided board. A few hits and misses with alignment and you'll get it.

[armdnrdy]

I didn't do double sided boards either but.....

Let me finish the sentence.

I didn't do double sided boards either but because there are some pretty cool builds out there that involve double sided boards,(Infinite Flanger) and to make the most out of the size of an enclosure, (shrinking build designs) I was compelled to figure it out.

[12Bass]

When I tried to adjust TR4 and TR5 to the factory specs, just like so many have posted, I was unable to reach those values at the same time. I would adjust one trimmer to one point, and then adjust the other but  it would change the original point! It just wasn't do able!

After reviewing the original factory schematics, I noticed a change that goes back to the Irwin/Giles MN3010 to SAD1024 retrofit schematic. This change doesn't seem to have anything to do with the BBD retrofit, so I changed the values to the factory drawing and was able to get the required set points.

If you look at the factory drawing Rev. 4 you'll see that C29 is 51pf (not 39pf) and R69 is 1M (not 2.2M)

Make the component changes and you'll be able to reach the factory set up specs.

Interesting.... I also ended up having to make a board for the SAD1024A, though mine is basically the same as the original moosapotamus design. I used a 47 pF silver mica for the clock capacitor and have had no trouble dialing in the clock range using the moosapotamus schematic.  In fact, there's still room for an even wider sweep if so desired. 

Recently I made a couple of quick recordings of the sound of the top and bottom of the clock range but can't seem to find them.  I'll post them as a reference for those who do not have access to the necessary test equipment.

[Skruffyhound]

Ok. Well props to Larry because that worked perfectly. I changed C29 to 47pF because that's what I had on hand and as noted above R69 became a 1M.
Bingo, I am now tuned
There still seems to be a lot of noise, so I'll continue following Charlie's video setup now.
Thank you
Aston

[Dave W]

>There still seems to be a lot of noise...
Are you still getting 14.5V out of your 7815? Are you using the 1054 or a dedicated PS?
Fix any PS issues (that much under 15V is an issue) before doing anything else. Just trust me on this. Please. 

[armdnrdy]

Ok. Well props to Larry because that worked perfectly. I changed C29 to 47pF because that's what I had on hand and as noted above R69 became a 1M.
Bingo, I am now tuned
There still seems to be a lot of noise, so I'll continue following Charlie's video setup now.
Thank you
Aston

Great Aston,

I'm glad it worked out for you!

[Skruffyhound]

@Larry :

@Dave : I'm using the LT1054. I will be checking into power issues next.
Having said that, after completing the set up, it does seem to be doing what it is supposed to do.
I need to go off and have a listen to some samples to see if I'm heading in the right direction.
Thanks for today all

[moosapotamus]

@Larry - sweet looking, compact layout. Almost looks like there aren't enough parts in there. Nice job!
I wouldn't mind having the Eagle files. Folks who want to etch their own would probably be fine with image files or pdf's.

I don't believe that changing C29/R69 values will change the interaction between TR4 and TR5,

I don't think that it changed the interaction between TR4 and TR5, I know it did! As I stated, I was unable to achieve the factory points until I changed those values. I wasn't even able to get close! After the change I achieved the points spot on!

I'm guessing that you mean the "degree" or "amount" of interaction? Yes?
Even with the factory rev4 values, you can not adjust the top end of the sweep without changing the bottom end of the sweep, or visa versa. Agree?
So there will always be some interaction. That's all I was trying to say.
I describe the interaction between TR4 and TR5 in more detail in the calibration video that I did.
And FWIW, I've used everything from 36pF to 51pF for C29 and had no problems dialing in the range.

@Aston - glad that worked for you!

I'll also echo what Dave W wrote - don't make the mistake of chasing audible issues before getting the power supply up to snuff.

~ Charlie

[armdnrdy]

Hey Charlie,

PM your email address and I'll send you the files. If you want to post them here or on your site, that's okay with me.

Also, what I was trying to say is that with the 51pf and the 2.2M I wasn't able to set the frequency to the factory calibration points.

It was like a see saw.

I spent quite some time trying for those two points. I never got close to both at the same time. After I changed those two components to the factory values, I nailed both of the points with a few turns of the trimmers in less than a minute.

[Skruffyhound]

Yeah, I couldn't get both points before I changed out those components, one or the other was outside the range. Now both are achievable in a couple of minutes. They are still inter-reactive.
Power is the next issue.
Thanks guys.