MN3007 ADA Flanger Clone Questions

[jmasciswannabe]

Show off 

It was actually an offer for the files of a smaller version of a great flanger. 

Haha, I was only joking 

Ahhh, no SAD1024 sadly and I have a board built up already 



Cheers though.

If you want it...I have the 3007 version as well...same size. 

I WANT IT!! PM'd!

[armdnrdy]

If you want it...I have the 3007 version as well...same size. 

I WANT IT!! PM'd!

A couple of members have PM'd me recently regarding the 125BB version of the ADA Flanger. There are a few things about this build that would need to be outlined......such as certain resistors being soldered on both sides (acting as a via) to bring continuity of a trace from one side of the board to the other.

I'll have to put a project file together that address this build's particular details. I won't be able to get to it right away...busy with the Mutron Flanger and this thing called work! UGG!

[johngreene]

Dang Larry!!!

Got all excited and then saw it was a double sided board   

Would LOVE to build another one of these but, in a more compact layout/smaller box 

GL,
It's actually not that difficult to do double sided boards!
It takes a little bit a patience.....and a little bit of trial and error.

The two sides are lined up with pins in alignment holes on the board.
You tape one side to the board, drill the alignment holes, insert the pins in the holes. Then pierce the second side at each printed alignment hole.
Iron one side on the board, then flip it and iron the next side.
Inspect your work and take measurements to check alignment.

If it's not right....you wash off the toner with acetone and try again.
I am down to two tries to get the alignment right.

Don't fear the double sided board! 

Why not tape the two sides together forming a pocket so you can align them up against a back light and then insert the PCB in the pocket, secure in place with some tape and iron away? That's how I used to do photo etch PCBs double sided.
Here's an old example (although you can only see one side).
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=625627200794436&set=a.625627197461103.1073741825.163357953688032&type=1&theater

[armdnrdy]

John,

I have never done it that way because.....I have never heard of that way!~

It sounds pretty good though!

What is your success rate with alignment?

[johngreene]

John,

I have never done it that way because.....I have never heard of that way!~

It sounds pretty good though!

What is your success rate with alignment?

For stompbox size boards, 100%
The only time I have a problem is when the board size gets to be more than 6-7 inches. And that is only because the transparency from the laser printer stretches slightly so if you line up one corner of the board, the opposite corner doesn't line up and can be pretty far off. But for 4-5" boards it works every time.

[armdnrdy]

After I get a few more projects out of the way I have to revisit the ADA Flanger trio that I have lined up.
I built the SAD version, and have the MN3010, and MN3007 versions to go.
They are all double sided boards....so I'll give the "pocket" a try.

[johngreene]

I actually did a little photo essay of sorts back in 2000 of how I make a double sided PCB. I'll see if I can resurrect it.

[MrStab]

damnit, i wanted to build this without annoying you guys, but i just need to see if this sounds about right, so here goes:

i've built the ADA Flanger on vero, because i'm scum with no cash for a PCB, and it seems to work okay for the most part - flanging, voltages within an acceptable margin of Earthtones' readings... i've not calibrated it properly yet (although i have made a working divide-by-1024 prescaler which may or may not make it feasible to do on my sound card), but i have tried to get a feel for everything else besides the clock.

here's my concern: there's a really narrow window of usability with the TR6 trimpot. too low, and the flanging is too weak. too high, and it produces too much echo. due to how they work, i expect that "room reverb"-esque sound in flangers, and i know that's the whole point in a BBD, but i just wanna see if this is behaviour is to be expected? how much is acceptable? there's a risk of it sounding like a really cheap reverb after a point. say you mute a string, pluck it really quickly and mute it again - will there always be a tiiiiny amount of obvious echo? it blends in much more when you're just picking normally, with more sustain etc.

sorry if i've not explained this properly. there's a thread about a slapback echo on the ADA where the OP had R68 and R69 mixed up, but those values (& C29, for which i've tried 47p and 33p) all seem fine for me. all ICs have been replaced once or twice, just in case.
TR2 is near-full, btw, as per the calibration videos, and TR1 is the best balance of flange & distortion i could find

cheers!

Edit: after trying with a Tube Screamer in front of it, the echo renders it unusable. it's either too prominent or the flange is too weak.

[jalmonsalmon]

 Hey there all!  Great little discussion here on a classic pedal!
I am going to build one of these soon with the MN3007 but for that jfet (LS4393 / 2N4393 512-PN4393) Those are oboslete.
Any other jfets that I can use instead? or should I try my luck on ebay?  I seen some metal 2N4393 TO-18's that are priced a little high but any help is greatly appreciated!

keep on Flanging!

[jalmonsalmon]

I see on mouser that they have this one 610-2N4393 in stock still and is TO-18 package, hopefully it will work.

[alanp]

Jalmon, I used... er, something from Tayda. I forget what, sorry. But there is a cheap alternative (found it through forum combing, I think.)

[LaceSensor]

Hey there all!  Great little discussion here on a classic pedal!
I am going to build one of these soon with the MN3007 but for that jfet (LS4393 / 2N4393 512-PN4393) Those are oboslete.
Any other jfets that I can use instead? or should I try my luck on ebay?  I seen some metal 2N4393 TO-18's that are priced a little high but any help is greatly appreciated!

keep on Flanging!

2n5457 works just fine

[jalmonsalmon]

Nice!  I have a big bag of 2N5457'S that I was using to dial in a DLS mkIII
thanks!

[12Bass]

MrStab,

It would seem that your clock is running much slower than necessary. When properly calibrated, the longest delay produced by the flanger should be ~15 ms, which is too short to be perceived as an echo.  I suspect that the clock on your build is roughly half of what it should be.  Try using a timing capacitor around half the size to double the clock rate.

[LaceSensor]

MrStab,

It would seem that your clock is running much slower than necessary. When properly calibrated, the longest delay produced by the flanger should be ~15 ms, which is too short to be perceived as an echo.  I suspect that the clock on your build is roughly half of what it should be.  Try using a timing capacitor around half the size to double the clock rate.

I recall from building mine that the build doc doesnt account for this requirement, so yeah, adjust the clock cap or you wont get it in the ballpark needed to calibrate properly.
I ended up with 22pF in mine and it sounds amazing.

[Scruffie]

The original clock cap was 51pF from the schematics I see, so I don't know where 39pF was chosen from, guess we should use 25pF.

[LaceSensor]

The original clock cap was 51pF from the schematics I see, so I don't know where 39pF was chosen from, guess we should use 25pF.

Hence my 22pF.
It got me in the range required to get the clock frequencies accurate

[StephenGiles]

I used a variable capacitor in mine.

[MrStab]

MrStab,

It would seem that your clock is running much slower than necessary. When properly calibrated, the longest delay produced by the flanger should be ~15 ms, which is too short to be perceived as an echo.  I suspect that the clock on your build is roughly half of what it should be.  Try using a timing capacitor around half the size to double the clock rate.

aha! that makes sense. i can't be sure if the prescaler i made is accurate or not, but (prior to reducing the cap from 47 to 33pF) the lowest end of the sweep i could get was like 55KHz. i couldn't get both 2.6MHz and 69.6K at the same time. i'll try sticking another cap in series to get to around 19pF or so and report back. cheers!

[MrStab]

that helped some.. the delay time is now almost imperceptible, just sounds like a reeeeally fast "metal room"-type delay, which is only noticeable when you mute the strings and play staccato. think i should go even lower than ~19pF?

doesnt mean much until i get access to a proper frequency counter (although it seems to be the software that's lacking), but i'm a little bit closer to getting that 2.6M/6.9K range.

Edit: still sounds weird at 15pF. i wonder if something else is up. it flanges, all the pots work as they should, i just can't get the full intensity of the effect without this weird tank reverb sound. i ran out of 2.2M resistors so i used 2x1M - i thought the use of 2.2 was just because it's commonplace, but maybe that extra 200k could play a role? FWIW, i tried 1M on its own and that didn't improve much. hmm... out of ideas, i've had this lying around for ages now trying to make all these parts & man-hours usable. as i say the lower timing cap value has helped somewhat, though.