Octave down and octave up in the same enclosure

[Sidd]

This is my first post here. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge and opinions.  As my fourth build I want to combine an octave down with an octave up in one pedal. I've found the Shocktave and the Marginally better rambler might be good and not too complex circuits. Those are different in that the Rambler is an octave/distortion circuit and the Shocktave adds the octave sound to the direct sound. Right? I've got some more questions though:

1. What other easy circuits would you suggest for this purpose? I think I'm pretty certain about the Shocktave, but I might choose another octave up.

2. Do you know any simple octave up circuits in which you can get the octave sound out separate from a direct signal as in the Shocktave?

3. I know there are some tricks to get octave circuits like the Shocktave to track better. Like changing some of the components in the circuit, using the neck pickup and keep the treble rolled down. But how will the Shocktave (and the Rambler) do with another pedal in front of it, like a fuzz and overdrive? I read somewhere that the Rambler should be fine with a distortion in front of it.

4. Is it possible to mod the Shocktave somehow to get two octaves down? This might suggest it's possible, although it's simulated without the volume pot.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=28511.0

5. Do you know any other circuits that is able to do two octaves down? I know the slacktave does. Any other simple ones?

6. Do you know any veroboard layouts for the shocktave?

7. I got an idea the other day that i might be able to send the octave down signal from the Shocktave directly to the Rambler and mix it with the direct signal from the Shocktave. This might be a way to get a distorted octave down sound without affecting the direct sound. I made this layout to show you what i mean. Is it possible to do it this way?


For reference
Shocktave:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/analogalchemy/sch/shocktave.html

Marginally better rambler:
http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/snippets.html

Slacktave:
http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/slacktave.png

[Sidd]

The image didn't show up in the post somehow. So I'll just post the link:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/diyuser/Shocktave_Rambler.gif.html

[Ben N]

Just a couple of suggestions: No Rambler is going to give you anything like a clean tone. Truth be told, no analogue octave circuit of any kind will, but something like a Green Ringer will do better. Also, for a 2X octave down, you would need a more complex circuit than a Shocktave, maybe something along the lines of an OC-2 or Rocktave. Slacktave is a very synthy sounding octave, may not be what you are after.
There are 2 things I know of that will improve the tracking and "cleanness" of octaves, and reduce the gating effects: compression and low-pass filtering. So, if you are cutting and pasting, how about:
1) An input stage that boosts and adds some compression--something like the So-Simple Compressor, the input stage of Joe Davisson's Vulcan overdrive, or his discrete compression op-amp;
2) A second-order LPF, such as the one at Plate to Plate or the one Ben Milner (Procesaurus) put in his modded Green Ringer;
3) A simple one-transistor emitter-follower buffer (2N5088 or similar); feeding, in parallel,
4) a Shocktave, minus the input stage, and
5) a Green Ringer, again minus the input stage,
6) a simple mixer, maybe something like this.
I haven't gone through this carefully, but if there are phase issues, you could configure the buffer (3) as a phase splitter. (Sorry no more linkies--I am at work, after all. Search here or Google and you should find everything.)
HTH

[Sidd]

Thanks for fast answering of some of this. I know I'm not going to get a clean octave tone and that's not what I'm after. I don't mind kind of synthy or "overdriven" octave tones, actually I'd like more of an experimental sound. I'll shure check out your suggestions, but I've only built three pedals before so I don't want something too complicated.

[The French connection]

Hello!

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=37545.0

Welcome!
Dan

[Gus]

http://filters.muziq.be/model/eh/bassmicrosynth

[Ben N]

I've only built three pedals before so I don't want something too complicated.

That's a pretty tall order for an up and down pedal.

[Sidd]

Ok, there's something i really wasn't specific about in my first post. I don't need to be able to use the octave down and up simultaneously. Although it might yield some interesting sounds. To  sum the most important:
-Do you know any simple octave up circuits in which you can get the octave sound out separate from a direct signal as in the octave down Shocktave?
-Will the shocktave work with a fuzz or overdrive in front of it?
-Will my idea for sending the octave down sound into the Rambler for distortion and then adding the direct signal work?
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/diyuser/Shocktave_Rambler.gif.html

[The French connection]

-Mxr Blue Box,
-Green ringer
-Buff 'n blend or Paralooper...something for blending clean signal with effected signal i bet

It become pretty complicated from now...

Dan

[Gus]

Look at the link I posted and read the description then look at the schematic.  The microsyth is an overlooked circuit IMO I don't seem to see much posted about it at forums.
  Next look at all the octave ups and downs you can find in schematics at this site then do a search at this site and you should find a lot of posts. 

[German]

Boss super octave!
Easy, and very nice sound!!

[oldrocker]

The MXR Blue Box has a 2 octave down and my website shows the mods to make it a 1 octave down like the Shocktave.
http://diyelectricguitareffects.bravehost.com/schematics.html