A Tap Tempo Control Chip

[solderman]

All delay issues aside the "Tap Tempo Volume Sequencer" in the Application Notes seems interesting (and functionally similar to a certain boutique tremolo on the market )

My question is what is the deal with the input/output section? Maybe I'm reading the schem wrong, but are the In/Out jacks connected to the photo resistor portion of the optoisolator? 

Hi all
From my lo level of deigning knowledge it seams that this IC is a great easy but expensive way to use in all kind of LED/LDR couplers like tremolo and such or as i assume ianmgull referes to The Catalinbread The Valcoder. I have just built a similar one with another odd ball Circut the 2N2646 It's a unijunction transistor - a unique type of semiconductor - it has two bases and one emitter that with a five components a round it makes a square wave. http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=75372.msg613734#msg613734

This is thought from a my lo level design horizon, What if this IC was made as an LFO to one ore more  404x switches folloved by a type op-amp buffer to drive one or a couple of  LED/LDR hooked up to filters like in the Easy vibe or the Nurse Quack. If more than one LED/LDR could oscillate out of phase/speed this would create some odd sound??

and the tempo could be set by foot

Has my horses left the stables or is this possible as an design idea?

//Solderman




PS. I really love this thread. It's handled everything from top nudge knowledge about electronic design to what how we act as musicians in or bands.

[wampcat1]

As far as applications for our Universal Tap Tempo Control Chip, they are more than just "metronomes and chopper effects".  The most obvious example, as shown by our Application Note 1, is a sequencer design, but many other designs are possible if you let yourself think outside the box.   

I forgot to respond to this previously. Firstly just make sure my tone is understood please take this as a friendly suggestion to help with your product. No long lasting company produces a product and then expects people to find uses for it. If you are in the business of selling a product it is your job to tell the potential buyers, like members of this forum, what we can and cannot do with your product. You should not tell potential buyers to "think outside the box" and then offer no suggestions other then one application which I think we already acknowledged earlier in this thread. If you want to sell more product I would suggest your company come up some other ideas for the use of this product along with detailed app. notes for those uses. Making it as easy as possible for buyers to use your product will make more people want to buy your products.

Andrew

Andrew makes a great point... as a company, the first company/person to release an easy 'paint by numbers' diagram on how to easily implement tap tempo into delay using their product will experience a jump in profit I predict... I'm pretty certain we're all aware that there are alot of pedal 'builders' out there who sell ALOT of pedals using simple cloned circuits with a new name and a few part values changed. Some of them are using GGG or BYOC boards. If they can't do something as simple as design a somewhat custom effect circuit there's no way in hell they are going to figure out anything to do with tap tempo circuitry.

I predict the first company to come out with this wins *big*.

bw

[MoltenVoltage]

As far as applications for our Universal Tap Tempo Control Chip, they are more than just "metronomes and chopper effects".  The most obvious example, as shown by our Application Note 1, is a sequencer design, but many other designs are possible if you let yourself think outside the box.   

I forgot to respond to this previously. Firstly just make sure my tone is understood please take this as a friendly suggestion to help with your product. No long lasting company produces a product and then expects people to find uses for it. If you are in the business of selling a product it is your job to tell the potential buyers, like members of this forum, what we can and cannot do with your product. You should not tell potential buyers to "think outside the box" and then offer no suggestions other then one application which I think we already acknowledged earlier in this thread. If you want to sell more product I would suggest your company come up some other ideas for the use of this product along with detailed app. notes for those uses. Making it as easy as possible for buyers to use your product will make more people want to buy your products.

Andrew

Andrew makes a great point... as a company, the first company/person to release an easy 'paint by numbers' diagram on how to easily implement tap tempo into delay using their product will experience a jump in profit I predict... I'm pretty certain we're all aware that there are alot of pedal 'builders' out there who sell ALOT of pedals using simple cloned circuits with a new name and a few part values changed. Some of them are using GGG or BYOC boards. If they can't do something as simple as design a somewhat custom effect circuit there's no way in hell they are going to figure out anything to do with tap tempo circuitry.

I predict the first company to come out with this wins *big*.

bw

I've got to say that the lack of creativity and initiative on this "Do It Yourself" forum is really disappointing.

This is the top forum for this stuff and there are only a couple people who seem to get it.

The point is being CREATIVE.  Pedal building is art.  If you want to make copies, go to Kinko's.

[nelson]

If Cartman owned an electronics business, that's how he'd run it. Insult his customers and tell them they weren't creative enough to utilise his product. A smart person would make it as easy as possible for the end user to implement it into their designs, instead of pretending that they "don't get it.".

Electronics is as much an art form as mathematics. You can't suddenly create a new green, just as you can't suddenly create a new 1. Either you want to sell them or you don't. I'd listen to the suggestions, it's not as if they are out to get you.

[jacobyjd]

I'm all over this chip for a sequencer build--that application alone makes it worth it for me.

Generally an effect with a tap tempo also has a way to adjust the speed based on a pot. Is there a way to incorporate both without having to add a switch between the tap chip and a separate lfo?

[MoltenVoltage]

I'm all over this chip for a sequencer build--that application alone makes it worth it for me.

Generally an effect with a tap tempo also has a way to adjust the speed based on a pot. Is there a way to incorporate both without having to add a switch between the tap chip and a separate lfo?

We can't connect a pot to this 8-pin chip since all the pins are used, but we could make a 14-pin version that could use a pot.  Would that make it more attractive?

[MoltenVoltage]

If Cartman owned an electronics business, that's how he'd run it. Insult his customers and tell them they weren't creative enough to utilise his product. A smart person would make it as easy as possible for the end user to implement it into their designs, instead of pretending that they "don't get it.".

Electronics is as much an art form as mathematics. You can't suddenly create a new green, just as you can't suddenly create a new 1. Either you want to sell them or you don't. I'd listen to the suggestions, it's not as if they are out to get you.

I guess its time to separate the men from the boys.

[frequencycentral]

"I've got to say that the lack of creativity and initiative on this "Do It Yourself" forum is really disappointing."

[eleanor296]

I have to agree with Stephen Giles here...
this thread is starting to be entertaining.
Reminds me of a certain "gear" forum.

Andy

[nelson]

I'm all over this chip for a sequencer build--that application alone makes it worth it for me.

Generally an effect with a tap tempo also has a way to adjust the speed based on a pot. Is there a way to incorporate both without having to add a switch between the tap chip and a separate lfo?

We can't connect a pot to this 8-pin chip since all the pins are used, but we could make a 14-pin version that could use a pot.  Would that make it more attractive?

A 14 pin version with LFO outs, BBD clock outs(scalable between 1024 and 4096 stages), various wave forms and tap tempo would be something that could be utilised in virtually all modulation/delay designs and would guarantee sales imo. You could demand a higher price too.

[MoltenVoltage]

"I've got to say that the lack of creativity and initiative on this "Do It Yourself" forum is really disappointing."

frequencycentral provided a link to the classic self-help book "How to Win Friends and Influence People", a very very funny move.  Nice job!

For the record, I am utilizing steps 10 and 12, namely
#10 - Appeal to noble motives.
#12 - Throw down a challenge.

[MoltenVoltage]

I'm all over this chip for a sequencer build--that application alone makes it worth it for me.

Generally an effect with a tap tempo also has a way to adjust the speed based on a pot. Is there a way to incorporate both without having to add a switch between the tap chip and a separate lfo?

We can't connect a pot to this 8-pin chip since all the pins are used, but we could make a 14-pin version that could use a pot.  Would that make it more attractive?

A 14 pin version with LFO outs, BBD clock outs(scalable between 1024 and 4096 stages), various wave forms and tap tempo would be something that could be utilised in virtually all modulation/delay designs and would guarantee sales imo. You could demand a higher price too.

Thanks for the feedback nelson.  We need to do our homework and will definitely get back to you.

[Lurco]

As far as applications for our Universal Tap Tempo Control Chip, they are more than just "metronomes and chopper effects".  The most obvious example, as shown by our Application Note 1, is a sequencer design, but many other designs are possible if you let yourself think outside the box.   

I forgot to respond to this previously. Firstly just make sure my tone is understood please take this as a friendly suggestion to help with your product. No long lasting company produces a product and then expects people to find uses for it. If you are in the business of selling a product it is your job to tell the potential buyers, like members of this forum, what we can and cannot do with your product. You should not tell potential buyers to "think outside the box" and then offer no suggestions other then one application which I think we already acknowledged earlier in this thread. If you want to sell more product I would suggest your company come up some other ideas for the use of this product along with detailed app. notes for those uses. Making it as easy as possible for buyers to use your product will make more people want to buy your products.

Andrew

Andrew makes a great point... as a company, the first company/person to release an easy 'paint by numbers' diagram on how to easily implement tap tempo into delay using their product will experience a jump in profit I predict... I'm pretty certain we're all aware that there are alot of pedal 'builders' out there who sell ALOT of pedals using simple cloned circuits with a new name and a few part values changed. Some of them are using GGG or BYOC boards. If they can't do something as simple as design a somewhat custom effect circuit there's no way in hell they are going to figure out anything to do with tap tempo circuitry.

I predict the first company to come out with this wins *big*.

bw

see springbreak reply #1

we`re wondering who`ll be the first kit-supply company offering the new feature?

"Build Your Own Tap" 

[Lurco]

I have to agree with Stephen Giles here...
this thread is starting to be entertaining.
Reminds me of a certain "gear" forum.

Andy

the "FreeGearBoxesOrg" ? 

[trendyironicname]

This thread took a weird turn.  I'm on the fence of, "i could build this myself with about an hour of coding" and that's a pretty neat idea, thank you.  Guess it's both.

[jacobyjd]

I'm all over this chip for a sequencer build--that application alone makes it worth it for me.

Generally an effect with a tap tempo also has a way to adjust the speed based on a pot. Is there a way to incorporate both without having to add a switch between the tap chip and a separate lfo?

We can't connect a pot to this 8-pin chip since all the pins are used, but we could make a 14-pin version that could use a pot.  Would that make it more attractive?

A 14 pin version with LFO outs, BBD clock outs(scalable between 1024 and 4096 stages), various wave forms and tap tempo would be something that could be utilised in virtually all modulation/delay designs and would guarantee sales imo. You could demand a higher price too.

Thanks for the feedback nelson.  We need to do our homework and will definitely get back to you.

Nelson's thoughts are spot-on. Since programming has so far eluded my understanding (and I don't have the time to devote to learning it at the moment), an all-inclusive 'interfacing' chip with a minimum of external components would be extremely attractive to me. Even if it cost a lot, it would be a way for me to make custom pedals for my live rig (what I do now) that would be able to completely beat the pants off 90% of the commercial effects out there (which I can do sound-wise, but not always through interface features--tap tempo goes a long way here).

Additionally, like I mentioned, the application for the current chip is exactly what I'm looking for w/ a sequencer design. Tap tempo is all but essential for me to match the small variances of other musicians while playing live.

[Lurco]

I've got to say that the lack of creativity and initiative on this "Do It Yourself" forum is really disappointing.

This is the top forum for this stuff and there are only a couple people who seem to get it.

The point is being CREATIVE.  Pedal building is art.  If you want to make copies, go to Kinko's.

for a newly designed tempo-sensitive pedal,
one could add a "cliquetrack IN" jack
for plugging in a (software-) sequencer`s or drummachine`s or even an old taperecorder`s synctrack signal,
or a triggering signal from an envelope-detector  
(to have it translated to delaytime or tremolo or vibrato rate by the chip).

[trendyironicname]

for a newly designed tempo-sensitive pedal,
one could add a "cliquetrack IN" jack
for plugging in a (software-) sequencer`s or drummachine`s or even an old taperecorder`s synctrack signal,
or a triggering signal from an envelope-detector  
(to have it translated to delaytime or tremolo or vibrato rate by the chip).

i love it

[cheezit]

Audio path processing is not control circuitry.  Most DIY pedal folks (esp. those without EE degrees) haven't had to deal with control stuff, and the resistive delay input to the PT2399 makes it friendly for those people, myself included.  So the fact there's a gap in understanding is no surprise, and sneering about it doesn't help.  Methinks certain folks selling chips would do well to remember that there are guys out there who can school them in 30 seconds flat----the few who hang around here just haven't taken the bait.

I looked over the datasheet and it struck me that by chaining two of these, using the pulse ouput of one to drive the tap tempo of the other, more combinations are possible---one chip gives 1:1, 1:2, and 1:3(triplets), but with chaining one could get a secondary pulse that is effectively 1:6 or 1:9.  There are probably cheaper ways to do pulse doubling/tripling, but this would be pretty easy.  So for instance a delay modulation controlled by the first output, and a tremolo at synched 3x controlled by the second....or a delay modulation on the first output, and the delay time at synched 2x on the second.

[wampcat1]

As far as applications for our Universal Tap Tempo Control Chip, they are more than just "metronomes and chopper effects".  The most obvious example, as shown by our Application Note 1, is a sequencer design, but many other designs are possible if you let yourself think outside the box.   

I forgot to respond to this previously. Firstly just make sure my tone is understood please take this as a friendly suggestion to help with your product. No long lasting company produces a product and then expects people to find uses for it. If you are in the business of selling a product it is your job to tell the potential buyers, like members of this forum, what we can and cannot do with your product. You should not tell potential buyers to "think outside the box" and then offer no suggestions other then one application which I think we already acknowledged earlier in this thread. If you want to sell more product I would suggest your company come up some other ideas for the use of this product along with detailed app. notes for those uses. Making it as easy as possible for buyers to use your product will make more people want to buy your products.

Andrew

Andrew makes a great point... as a company, the first company/person to release an easy 'paint by numbers' diagram on how to easily implement tap tempo into delay using their product will experience a jump in profit I predict... I'm pretty certain we're all aware that there are alot of pedal 'builders' out there who sell ALOT of pedals using simple cloned circuits with a new name and a few part values changed. Some of them are using GGG or BYOC boards. If they can't do something as simple as design a somewhat custom effect circuit there's no way in hell they are going to figure out anything to do with tap tempo circuitry.

I predict the first company to come out with this wins *big*.

bw

I've got to say that the lack of creativity and initiative on this "Do It Yourself" forum is really disappointing.

This is the top forum for this stuff and there are only a couple people who seem to get it.

The point is being CREATIVE.  Pedal building is art.  If you want to make copies, go to Kinko's.

don't get me wrong... do what you want
Here's the thing about capitalism though... and making any sort of real money with guitar effects (or any product in general):
provide what people need and want, at a price they are willing to pay.
supply and demand.

The question is, does your company exist to make a profit, as a personal hobby, or just to kill time?
A company's purpose, by definition, is to make money. If you don't want to run your business LIKE a business, it's only a matter of time before you (i say 'you' generically, i mean 'a person') hit a ceiling.

The truth is that you/your company may not be the one to do make the tap tempo circuit an easy diy project.

But I GUARANTEE you that *SOMEONE* will. The opportunity is there. The truth is that many of those who have knowledge in *any* niche do very little with it. The successful people use it to better the world. The wealthy people use it to make money. The *smart* people use it to do both.



bw