Stomp 3pdt´s and dpdt´s..I´ve just had enough!!

[dschwartz]

..i ended up returning to 3pdt´s..somehow they stopped failing as i got more careful when soldering them. I made some cmos switch prototypes, very tight layouts, but the extra work and effort took me back to simple 3pdt´s switches...

If only someone like Molten voltage can produce and design a solid state bypass chip, and reliable and cheap push button switches were available..i would reconsider...

[R.G.]

If only someone like Molten voltage can produce and design a solid state bypass chip, and reliable and cheap push button switches were available..i would reconsider...

So what is it that you don't like about CD4053s and tactile switches? I have some considerable experience that this combination works. 

[boogietube]

R.G. ....

Probably shouldn't ask, but what kind of Alps switch does Visual Sound use? Would another actuator work with it? I know the actuator was custom designed. Believe me I've searched the Alps switches and found nothing...I'm laughing thinking that I shouldn't have asked this...

[R.G.]

Probably shouldn't ask, but what kind of Alps switch does Visual Sound use? Would another actuator work with it? I know the actuator was custom designed. Believe me I've searched the Alps switches and found nothing...I'm laughing thinking that I shouldn't have asked this...

There is always a mechanical design job to be done with any switching product. Our actuators were custom designed, yes. But one of the entire objects of tactile switches is that the switch itself is sealed and very reliable as well as being separated from the mechanical arrangements. Every tactile switch will work with any actuator that (a) has enough travel to actuate the switch; easy because travel is usually under half a millimeter, and (b) has pressure and travel limiting to prevent the actuator from destroying the switch physically.

The only conceptual differences between tactile switches with custom actuators and a pre-made switch is that the pre-made switch is theoretically already protected from overtravel and overpressure by its mounting arrangement, at least up to some reasonable level.

[dschwartz]

If only someone like Molten voltage can produce and design a solid state bypass chip, and reliable and cheap push button switches were available..i would reconsider...

So what is it that you don't like about CD4053s and tactile switches? I have some considerable experience that this combination works. 

well, i don´t dislike them, in fact i started this thread ranting about 3pdt´s and wanting to go with CMOS. I totally still think that electronic switching is far more reliable than a mechanic switch. But i couldn´s find in chile a cheap reliable enough tactile switches that would fit in my builds whithout much hassle.
When i design i have these prerogatives:
1- it must sound good (of course)
2- parts must be easy to find and cheap if possible
3- must be versatile in a small box (which means ussually more controls and a tight layout)
4- minimum wiring as possible
5- Most reliability as possible
6- must fit nicely in a small box without looking crammed.
my tries to design with cmos failed on points 2, 4, and 6.

[David]

Daniel, can you get these easily and cheaply in Chile:

CD4066 or CD4053
CD4049
Microchip PIC16F628, PIC16F628A, PIC16F648, PIC16F648A

[dschwartz]

yeah, i know, cmos chips are abundant and cheap like flies here..but is the switch/actuator thingy that is not really easy to find.
All the switches i checked were
- too small and weak
- or too big and weak
- or too expensive and reliable

this would be a better world if a stomp-like switch integrated with an analog switching device exists. Like a switch with a circuit inside which would bypass, buffer, bias, and dc couple the signal. Imagine it  with 7 pins (in/out/fxIn/fxOut/V+/gnd/LED), just like an electronic 3pdt...ahhh that would be sweet!..

[Skruffyhound]

this would be a better world if a stomp-like switch integrated with an analog switching device exists. Like a switch with a circuit inside which would bypass, buffer, bias, and dc couple the signal. Imagine it  with 7 pins (in/out/fxIn/fxOut/V+/gnd/LED), just like an electronic 3pdt...ahhh that would be sweet!..

That strikes me as a very smart idea. No need to have the PCB within 1/2 a millimeter of the actuator, no extraneous daughter boards etc..
I just by chance read the "Tillman preamp in a cable jack" article yesterday, kind of a similar concept in the sense of being integrated and simple. Considering how many stomp switches are used on our forum alone in an average year, that might be an idea to run with.

[earthtonesaudio]

this would be a better world if a stomp-like switch integrated with an analog switching device exists. Like a switch with a circuit inside which would bypass, buffer, bias, and dc couple the signal. Imagine it  with 7 pins (in/out/fxIn/fxOut/V+/gnd/LED), just like an electronic 3pdt...ahhh that would be sweet!..

That strikes me as a very smart idea. No need to have the PCB within 1/2 a millimeter of the actuator, no extraneous daughter boards etc..
I just by chance read the "Tillman preamp in a cable jack" article yesterday, kind of a similar concept in the sense of being integrated and simple. Considering how many stomp switches are used on our forum alone in an average year, that might be an idea to run with.

I agree, that is a good idea!  Especially if you can condense it to smaller/shorter than a 3PDT.   

[dschwartz]

that´s what i´m talking about. Imagine that switch, 8-pin dip (or inline), you could even socket it! A high quality stomp actuator, and inside the box, a simple silicon-opamp-sized blob with the integrated circuit...If someone knows the business of producing that stuff, i think it would be a nice business..not even just for DIY!

[David]

yeah, i know, cmos chips are abundant and cheap like flies here..but is the switch/actuator thingy that is not really easy to find.
All the switches i checked were
- too small and weak
- or too big and weak
- or too expensive and reliable

this would be a better world if a stomp-like switch integrated with an analog switching device exists. Like a switch with a circuit inside which would bypass, buffer, bias, and dc couple the signal. Imagine it  with 7 pins (in/out/fxIn/fxOut/V+/gnd/LED), just like an electronic 3pdt...ahhh that would be sweet!..

Can you get computer keyboard pushbuttons?  How about doorbell pushbuttons?

[earthtonesaudio]

You could do it all in a GEOFEX "pancake" switch.  If you included the LED on the switch itself, you'd only need to run 6 wires through to the enclosure.

[Skruffyhound]

http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Switches/Tactile-Switches/SMD-Tactile-switches/36680/kw/Tactile+Switches
or
http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Switches/Tactile-Switches/PCB-Tactile-switch/61989/kw/Tactile+Switches

I could definitely design an actuator assembly that would be a third of the size of a stomp switch but I'm not the guy for the circuitry. I'm guessing that you would be changing logic states, like on/off or on/on so you only need a spst, or a momentry. I hate these clunky stomp switches, so I'm slowly working towards a solution for myself to avoid them. All this is not new, but a unit that was just that, an independent building block with the above mentioned features, bolt in - wire up the terminals, that would be a step forward, and accessible for the vast majority of people, and not just DIYer's.

[dschwartz]

i tried to find door bell switches but i couldn´t.
geofex pancake and other diy solutions are fine if you want the pedal for yourself, but i sell my builds and i like them to be/ look professional.
I designed some ideas for switch/actuator (for example, using a 10mm led as a light/stomp and a tactile switch as actuator, some springs and screws) but they were all more complicated to build and less reliable than just putting a 3pdt..

[R.G.]

You know, Small Bear sells an actuator. And I designed an actuator made from hardware-store parts intended for lamps.

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=32

http://geofex.com/FX_images/nipples.jpg
I'll have to look for the article - apparently the picture made it but the article didn't. But it's pretty simple- you could guess.

[earthtonesaudio]

http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/alteractuator/alteractuator.htm

[R.G.]

Thanks! 

I was just testing you ... yeah, that's it! That's my story and I'm sticking to it. 

Another way to get a good-ish actuator is to destroy a stomp switch for the parts and stick a compliant spring (as with SB's actuator) or a chunk of squshy rubbery stuff to the bottom.

[blacKtearZ]

Treat the 4053 like 3 mechanical spdt switches, and look for a DC difference between the two throws and the common on each switch, by using the DC volts setting on the meter and putting one probe on the common and the other on a throw.  Each throw should be within a couple millivolts of the common

Something in the mod  might have gotten rid of bias on one of the places in the circuit the 4053 is hooked to.

I have checked the voltage difference between the In and out of the effects board(at the point where the wires leave for switching module. Its 53mV when OFF and 290mV when ON. Is this difference enough to cause a loud pop? I have posted both the original and the current circuit below in the hope if anyone could spot the cause. 

This was the original Pastrami Circuit.


This is the hybrid Guvnor-Crunchbox i have replaced the pastrami circuit with.


BTW, I have tried putting 1M resistors to ground on both ends but the pop is still there.

[tempus]

ts 53mV when OFF and 290mV when ON. Is this difference enough to cause a loud pop?

I would think so - usually a difference of 10 mv is going to be at least audible, and you've got about 250. Not to mention that this is a high gain circuit, so the difference is getting amplified besides.

BTW, I have tried putting 1M resistors to ground on both ends but the pop is still there.

Try using a lower value and see if it makes a difference. Maybe 1M is too high to shunt that DC level to ground. You may or may not notice a difference in the sound, but if it reduces the popping, at least you know you're on the right track.

[alparent]

I simulated it on live wire and seems to work fine.

Might be a stupid question..............what is LiveWire? Is it software? Any WEB site?