Doing good toner transfers

[valdiorn]

Hi guys. I need your help with doing a good toner transfer onto single sided copper boards. Basically, I've been trying to get this right all week and only have one small board that turned out OK, but only for sheer luck.
I can never get more than half the toner to stick. I'm mostly using glossy inkjet photo paper, pretty heavy paper. I print on the darkest setting, have even tried printing double on the same paper (putting the sheet back in the printer), it was a little better but not much, also printer doesn't always align perfectly, making it a hassle.

I cut out the paper, use some clear tape to keep it in place after sanding lightly over the board with 800-grit and using paint thinner to wipe off all dirt and grease (It's starting to give me a headache now, I've done this so many times today ) I press the iron on for about 3-5 minutes, make sure to get the edges, pressing with the tip all around them. I've tried various heat settings but nothing seems to work.

What sticks on the board is a white semi-transparent film and some toner, and on maybe 50% of the board I can see faint traces of where the toner was (on the copper) but it just doesn't stick. I try to remove the white film (guessing it's the glossy film on the paper) but the toner ends up going with it.

One thing I suspect might the the problem is that I'm using a color laser printer (Lexmark C530). Anybody have trouble with color lasers?

What's the secret, guys?!

Also, should it be possible to do good toner transfer with normal paper, because the glossy stuff is like a dollar per sheet, and I've used up 5 of them just today 

[bioroids]

I've never used a color laser printer, I don't know if that may be part of the problem.

It may happen because you are not running the iron hot enough, so the toner doesn't melt and transfer to the pcb.
Also, you don't describe the very important part of peeling the paper after the transfer. Are you soaking it in water and letting it peel softly? That works good for me.

regards

Miguel

[dschwartz]

try the back paper of stickers..works great

[biggy boy]

I would guess it could be the paint thinner, it is a petroleum based product and would make the surface slippery and oily.

this is what I do:
Sand the board, then wash the board with hot water and dish soap. Rinse off with more hot water.
Dry it with clean paper towel then clean it with Isotropic alcohol 90% stuff wipe it down with a new clean paper towel.
I also use the full heat of the iron and press down hard.
Glen

[davent]

Great tutorial here by John Lyons, a frequent poster in these parts and an exceptional board maker. http://www.mrdwab.com/john/How-to-make-PCBs.html

dave

[John Lyons]

Ah shucks dave! 

I think your problem is actually a couple things...
Paint thinner is going to leave a film I believe.
You want to use a solvent that dries fast without a film.
Denatured alcohol, acetone, lacquer thinner all work well.
You want to get the board clean and then get any scuffing
dust (copper dust) off the board. Clean shiney board and no
particles or film left on it.
I have been using just #0000 steel wool and this "green"
fake lacquer thinner lately.

The other main issue is that color laser printers do not
work for this transfering method. You want to use a straight up
copier or black toner laser printer. The color toner is thin and shiney
and does not stick to the copper. I've tried it a couple times with no luck.

I usually iron until the paper backing is yellowed and I have gone over the board
5 times with small (not too heavy pressure) circles in order to cover the whole
board well. I use an old heavy iron on the cotton setting.

Hope this helps.

John

[tranceracer]

What type of printer are you using?  Brother toner is very flaky and doesn't stick to well.  I've since bought a Samsung color laser and the black is a lot thicker.  I just use the brother for general printing now.

Also I've found that my iron was not hot enough to get consistent transfers so I've since upgraded to an electric hotplate / skillet from the Goodwill.  It gets an even heat across the board and I just lay a cotton cloth over the transfer and use a pizza roller to roll the transfer to the Cu board.  I've since found out that if I apply to much pressure, the traces ooze and get really "fuzzy" so have had to tweak the pressure I place on the transfer.

[Minion]

If you want to know the best Paper for doing transfers try "Kodak Premium Picture Paper" , this stuff it freaking amazeing , You use yer Lazer printer to print yer design then Transfer it to the Copper with a Lot of Presure and heat , then run it under cold water for a few seconds and then grab the edge of the Paper and peel it off , it usually peels off in one piece and leaves 100% of the ink on the copper...

There is no soaking ,rubbing and disolveing the paper , just iron it on , cool it off and Peel off the paper ... this stuff it works as well as PNP blue but at 25% the cost ... Try it , you will be very impressed .....



Cheers

[Mark Hammer]

We've been through this so many times before.

Once you have an actual clean board, the chief challenge lies in knowing that the toner has adhered.  With PnP, that's easy because the acetate sheet is thin and sags between the toner when adhesion has been achieved.  You can actually see the PCB pattern in bas relief outline when you have gotten all of it to stick to the copper.

Photo paper, unfortunately, is often much thicker.  So thick, in fact that there is absoutely NO sag between the parts where the toner is.  And of course, because it is opaque, what is there to "see"?  In my own case, I use an old HP Laserjet II (circa 1992), the cheapest phot paper I can find, and an iron with an aluminum heating area.  I find that when enough heat has been applied to fully transfer the pattern, I can usually see the PCB pattern on the surface of the back of the paper, like a "rubbing" that people sometimes do with charcoal and paper.  If I can't see the pattern, I assume it isn't fully transfered.

Another often-overlooked factor is that the board has to truly cool down for the toner to want to stick to the copper more than the white emulsion on the photo paper wants to stick to the paper sheet.  Try to lift the photo paper while the board+paper is still warm, and you'll only get a partial transfer.

Finally, I second the recommendation to use fine steel wool to buff the board before applying the transfer pattern.  You want the board completely free of any residue on the surface that might impede transfer.  Part of doing this properly means have clean hands and holding the board in a manner that will not contaminate it with "finger juice".  Consider getting a pair of gloves (rubber, surgical, cotton gardening type, etc.) that you use only for making boards so you can hold the board while buffing and while positioning the pattern on the board for ironing, without getting any residue on the surface.

[doitle]

Today I was working in the labs here and going through testing and recalibrating the equipment at the benches. (DC power Supply, Scope, Function Generator) and I was operating off a little summer maintenance worksheet my boss printed me on the laser printer in his office. It was a spread sheet in the middle with boxes for checkmarks. As I was working on the sheet I ran my hand across and to my surprise, the print was THICK. I mean it was like braille! You could see the print if you held the page sideways and looked right down it. First thing I thought when I felt the print? I wish I could use that laser printer to try to make some boards! I know this is a stupid story but I've never felt a laser print that was that... tall. I bet it would make a nice PCB.

[ACS]

try the back paper of stickers..works great

I tried everything to get the process to work.  Using these backing papers was the one thing that made a difference.  Excellent transfers, every time now

[bobank]

Only B&W laser printer can work, but iron is the problem as can't have constant temperature. You can try to iron it on roller, so only small aria is under the heat and preassure, but I prefer special laminator with top and bottom rollers heated. You can print on almost any paper ( not too thick and not glossy) but have to prepare and tha is easy part.
Maximus

[makaze808]

Where does one getting the rear sheet of stickers from???

[Mark Hammer]

Addresss labels, CD labels, etc.

[dschwartz]

Where does one getting the rear sheet of stickers from???

well, i use stickers for my designs, so i just save the back papers and stack them for future use..
you can buy that transparent PVC adhesive paper that comes in rolls at home depot (and the likes).. those used for "smoke" window glasses.. tehy cost like 2 bucks and the back paper is the best..the roll is like 60cm by 2mts so, plenty available there!

[caspercody]

I have been using Staples photo basic paper, that was mentioned in a article I read some months back. But lately have at issues with bad transfers, and having to press harder and harder. Not sure if they switched toner here were I print. But last night tried the printing to a magazine page. I did (3) transfers last night with the magazine paper, and they all worked better than any I have previously did. And I barely had to press these transfers onto the paper. I just grabbed a magazine here and ripped out a page. I was so impressed with this. Thanks for the suggestion that was in another post!

[JKowalski]

All that I do to make them is sand the board vigorously with some fine steel wool, making sure to take some material off every area of the board. Then I laser print on some random glossy paper, tape it onto the board, and iron. 100% perfect for me, every time now.

Never bothered with chemical cleaning, sanding is all it takes for me.

[bobank]

If you want to have good  PC board without dark room and chemicals, go to PulsarprofessionalFX.com or something like that , just google pulsar, pc boards and will find it easy. Go to part named PC out of box and read that. They have everything, but you have to spend little bit money in advance, like for personal laminator, special laminator with upper and lower heaters rollers ( about 60 bucks), and blue trnasfer paper, green cover foil - it is not expensive. So when you got that and there is problem once in a while in making good PC board, e-mail me at locksmith1ATverizon.net. Just replace AT with @. and i will write you few tricks so any, I mean anytime you will get good PC board. I spent days and days trying those staples glossy papers. I can make my own paper, but not from Staples glossy paper. You HAVE TO HAVE  B&W  laser printer or print on anything ( reverse) and go to Office max and copy it on laser copier, just be sure to increase toner to maximum that is visible but no smudgy.

[Ibanezfoo]

I have been using Staples photo basic paper, that was mentioned in a article I read some months back. But lately have at issues with bad transfers, and having to press harder and harder. Not sure if they switched toner here were I print. But last night tried the printing to a magazine page. I did (3) transfers last night with the magazine paper, and they all worked better than any I have previously did. And I barely had to press these transfers onto the paper. I just grabbed a magazine here and ripped out a page. I was so impressed with this. Thanks for the suggestion that was in another post!

Get on the Victorias Secret mailing list and use their catalogs.  Free and they work great in my experience.  Peel off clean as well once its been soaked for ~10 mins or so.  Penn State Industries catalogs work nice too.  Also free.