A new box to improve the tone

[Paul Marossy]

I've seen lots of pictures of Jimi Hendrix using a coil cord so shouldn't we all?  That is unless Stevie Ray Vaughn didn't use a coil cord, I guess we'll never solve this.

No, all you need is the "Tone Suck" pedal here: http://www.angelfire.com/yt3/redtele
That way you can stay away from those nasty coil cords.

[petemoore]

  So the capacitence of the cable has a different kinda tone compared to say a capacitor.
 Refute or re-enforce ^that as needed.
 I always went for the 'expensive' cables, which is good if that expense keeps the maker/guarantuer around for lifetime replacement swaps.
 I'd have to get used to trying different kinds again, but won't.
 I had one of those coily cable jobs, barely used it/replaced it [Unk condition].
 I made some junk outta junk and crum-plugs, then used Belden/Switchcraft to replace all that, once I caught wind of it. Oh yes, much better benefits.
 That coily thing kept getting a cable stuck in a coil, I'm not sure what the recommended pull-strength is to stretch the copper strands, I'm sure I saw it exceeded on most occasions involving removing the coiled type cable from a bag of cables.
 

[Paul Marossy]

 So the capacitence of the cable has a different kinda tone compared to say a capacitor.
 

Well, there is also inductance in a guitar cable as I understand it.

I would think you could emulate different cable lengths by combining a small value inductor, resistor and capacitor. You could make that pretty compact, as opposed to a big box with a 20 ft guitar cable in it, amongst others.

[Gus]

Maybe try RG58A/U about 30.8 pf/ft.  A/U has a stranded center conductor. 

I have used 58A/U for home made audio interconnects for the stereo.

I do not know what the handing noise might be with guitar with rg58a/u.  Sometimes you can cause a signal by moving the cord you can hear from the amp.  Some cords are designed for low handing noise.

[earthtonesaudio]

 So the capacitence of the cable has a different kinda tone compared to say a capacitor.
 

Well, there is also inductance in a guitar cable as I understand it.

I would think you could emulate different cable lengths by combining a small value inductor, resistor and capacitor. You could make that pretty compact, as opposed to a big box with a 20 ft guitar cable in it, amongst others.

One think I'm semi-curious about is, how close to the actual cable would be a model with a single series inductor+shunt capacitor?  I mean, the real cable is actually an infinite number of infinitely small inductors in series, and at the "junction" of each one is an infinitely tiny capacitor.  If the cable had zero series resistance, there would be a resonant peak of infinite Q, but the series resistance and dielectric losses dampen this.  ...At least that's how I picture it.  Certainly you can get a reasonably close approximation with just a second-order filter, maybe close enough to be indistinguishable by ear, but it's still something worth considering.

[Paul Marossy]

 So the capacitence of the cable has a different kinda tone compared to say a capacitor.
 

Well, there is also inductance in a guitar cable as I understand it.

I would think you could emulate different cable lengths by combining a small value inductor, resistor and capacitor. You could make that pretty compact, as opposed to a big box with a 20 ft guitar cable in it, amongst others.

One think I'm semi-curious about is, how close to the actual cable would be a model with a single series inductor+shunt capacitor?  I mean, the real cable is actually an infinite number of infinitely small inductors in series, and at the "junction" of each one is an infinitely tiny capacitor.  If the cable had zero series resistance, there would be a resonant peak of infinite Q, but the series resistance and dielectric losses dampen this.  ...At least that's how I picture it.  Certainly you can get a reasonably close approximation with just a second-order filter, maybe close enough to be indistinguishable by ear, but it's still something worth considering.

I don't know a whole lot about equivalent circuits, but wouldn't the affect of that be cumulative?

Hmm... are we getting into DSP stuff at this point to accurately model it? I don't think we would have to get quite that carried away, would we? 

[Baktown]

In case anyone cares, I buy a cable that's heavy duty, and won't come apart in the middle of a gig.  I personally can't hear the difference in a Monster cable or a Radio Shack cable, but I know which one is built toughest. 

If anyone wants to conduct a durability test, send all your cables to my 17 year old thrash/death/grindcore playing son.  If he can't destroy it, it's virtually unbreakable.

Rick J

[Meanderthal]

 Tone sucking extra-long coiled high inductance high capacitance cable AND a non-true-bypass on an unbuffered crybaby, wasn't that part of the secret formula? Probably makes for some interesting radio reception...

[Paul Marossy]

In case anyone cares, I buy a cable that's heavy duty, and won't come apart in the middle of a gig.  I personally can't hear the difference in a Monster cable or a Radio Shack cable, but I know which one is built toughest. 

If anyone wants to conduct a durability test, send all your cables to my 17 year old thrash/death/grindcore playing son.  If he can't destroy it, it's virtually unbreakable.

Rick J

In my book, longevity and being built to last is far more important than a few less pF of capacitance per foot.

Tone sucking extra-long coiled high inductance high capacitance cable AND a non-true-bypass on an unbuffered crybaby, wasn't that part of the secret formula? Probably makes for some interesting radio reception...

Hey, if it worked for Jimi Hendrix...

[Derringer]

I searched in vain to find the story written out ... but it goes something like this.

Steve Vai's guitar tech (at some point in the past) picked up some "high quality" instrument cables for Steve to use because he had previously been using some radioshackesque cheapo cables. Steve complained that the tone wasn't there because the new cables were (paraphrasing here) letting too much electricity through. The tech eventually caved and bought the cheap cables that Steve had usually used. The tech then decided to measure and compare the capacitance of the high quality cables vs. the low quality ones and found that the low quality cables had higher values.

so there you go ... probably a total BS story because I originally read it on the net ... but there's truth to cables sounding different.

[ampman50]

I ran across an article by Bill Lawrence (of Bill & Becky) about a passive capacitance box so you can dial in your tone, ie more capacitance + warmer tone less capacitance = brighter tone. It had a rotary switch to add capacitance thus emulating a higher capacitance cord.  I have two different cords that I use, a 25 ft. Beldon (high capacitance) and a 15 ft. red George L's (low capacitance). I can change the tone of my rig by just changing the cords.

[ayayay!]

I ran across an article by Bill Lawrence (of Bill & Becky) about a passive capacitance box so you can dial in your tone, ie more capacitance + warmer tone less capacitance = brighter tone. It had a rotary switch to add capacitance thus emulating a higher capacitance cord.  I have two different cords that I use, a 25 ft. Beldon (high capacitance) and a 15 ft. red George L's (low capacitance). I can change the tone of my rig by just changing the cords.

THD has a "pedal" that does just this.  Passive, no DC.  I saw it one day and said, "What kinda gimmick is this?" 

I tried it, and the only conclusion I could arrive at was:  whatever.   Especially for that price. 

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/THD-Quintet-Tone-Curve-Guitar-Effects-Pedal?sku=150523

[aron]

> but there's truth to cables sounding different.

Certainly they do sound different and it's mainly due to capacitance.

[Joe]

The combination of resistance, inductance, and capacitance would give each cable it's own resonant peak. Emulating a longer cable means adding a small series inductance followed by a capacitance to ground. (The resistance effects can be emulated by using extremely thin wire.)

So, a box with a tapped coil made from really thin magnet wire, followed by one of several capacitors to ground. Both change together with some fancy rotary switch.

That's what I would do, if it were worth it

[Paul Marossy]

The combination of resistance, inductance, and capacitance would give each cable it's own resonant peak. Emulating a longer cable means adding a small series inductance followed by a capacitance to ground. (The resistance effects can be emulated by using extremely thin wire.)

So, a box with a tapped coil made from really thin magnet wire, followed by one of several capacitors to ground. Both change together with some fancy rotary switch.

That's what I would do, if it were worth it

That's probably exactly what that THD product shown above does.