A new box to improve the tone

[aron]

re: this post:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=68119.0

I propose a new box. It's true bypass, with a rotary switch. Inside the box are rolls of guitar cable, maybe with clips to the switch. Now what you do is dial in various lengths of cable and it will start darkening your tone depending on the switch setting. Perhaps there's a 10ft setting, or a 20ft setting. Lets not use a capacitor because we want the _wire_ to add it's own tone. You can even mod it by cutting the wire shorter or perhaps even making it longer. It should add a "3D" quality and improve the mids and perhaps even improve the bass! 

[ayayay!]

Heh.  But that really will only work if you can figure out a way to integrate that into your guitar too.   

[Paul Marossy]

OK, but why would someone want that?!

It seems like everyone is obsessed with the tiny amount of capacitance in the typical guitar cable, and so they buy hogwash like "oxygen free" copper cables and obscenely overpriced Monster cables that maybe do a tiny bit better per foot of cable than a cheapo cable. It seems like propoganda and hype to me with all these "superior" cables. The only way that they seem superior to me is in the construction of the cable and the quality of the plugs.

I know, people say they can hear a difference, but I'd like to see how people fare in a blind listening test.

An interesting side note: a general contractor here in Las Vegas built a spec home next to his at The Ridges, which is a golf course community where some extremely wealthy people live (like casino or ex-casino owners). Anyhow, I designed the HVAC for this $13,000,000 spec house and I was there one day with the contractor as it was nearing completion. He told me that one of the potential buyers was the owner of Monster Cable. Now this contractor does background checks on people who show interest in one of his creations, and so he looked into this guy's credentials. IIRC, this guy had something like $50 million in his checking account. Yeah, who's laughing all the way to the bank? *insert emoticon for strong disapproval here*

[aron]

Actually what I am finding is that maybe players want _more_ capacitance per foot and not less. Look at the Analysis cable and the Evidence Audio. What I am finding is that "more 3d" and "more warmth" and "clearer" means, more capacitance.

[Paul Marossy]

Actually what I am finding is that maybe players want _more_ capacitance per foot and not less. Look at the Analysis cable and the Evidence Audio. What I am finding is that "more 3d" and "more warmth" and "clearer" means, more capacitance.

Ah, very interesting.

[darron]

sounds contrary to the sort of thing people fight against. people usually like buffers and reducing their bass for lead boosts etc.

it's an idea though. it would be pretty crazy to see in action.

why not just take the properties of the longer lengths of lead and replicate them? take a 40ft cable and measure it's capacitance and resistance. this will probably be less prone to picking up noise too.

the resistance shouldn't actually be much at all, but maybe you could put a 100k resistor in series with the signal and then a small value capacitor to ground (which is effectively a low pass filter anyway)

i think the easiest way to get the exact effect that you want is put the signal in series with a 1m or so pot. try that first and see if it's what you were looking for.

[edvard]

Nah, that's just dirty simulation. We want the real thing.

Aron, the only problem I can see with your idea is that there will be some inductance associated with stuffing the required coils of wire in a relatively small space.
Although it would actually work in your favor by enhancing the harmonic effect of cable capacitance  and artificially darken the sound, thus requiring less actual cabling inside the box.
If you wound the cable just right, you could even form the coils into a veritable autotransformer, giving a nice voltage boost at the output to overcome any resistive losses.
Oh, and you'll probably want to strap a diode across the coil assembly to discharge any current that may build up, which would of course cause a nasty "pop" when you hit the footswitch.

Can't wait to see this in the "Pictures!" thread...

[darron]

you guys are crazy (:

could you just use coax to save on space (ie that usual stuff we use in high gain/noise circuits)? i suppose that would have higher capacitance and more resistance too?

[Joe Hart]

I believe I read that the guy from Government Mule actually uses a coil cord (or something equaling a long "tone-sucking" cord) because he likes how it warms up his tone.  Hmmm.
-Joe Hart

[aron]

Well some of the cables should be solid wire because supposedly that improves the tone too. :-)

Preserve clarity and focus, revealing harmonic detail and articulation

[edvard]

Heck yeah, and it better be the military-grade crystalline copper stuff, too.

The random alignment of the atoms in ordinary copper makes "micro-diodes" in the current path and at the solder joint (due to sub-optimal oxidization matrices) , which further adds to impedance and bad tone.
Crystalline copper suffers from none of that nonsense and provides an ideal surface for a lossless bond at the solder joint as well.

[Meanderthal]

 Anyone remember that box with a 3in length of old cloth insulated wire?

[earthtonesaudio]

There's inductance too.  What makes the myths/mojo/hype get blown out of proportion, I think, is the "true believers" view cables as mystically complex and un-knowable, while the "skeptics" view them as simpler than they really are.

[R.G.]

Before long, someone would say that only wire that was drawn before 1965 sounds any good.

In fact, only wire from Belden's drawing factory in 1959 is the best.

But only if it was processed first shift. They got lazy and careless on second and third shifts. 

[darron]

Anyone remember that box with a 3in length of old cloth insulated wire?

yah! i use that as an example when i try to explain what stupid people can sometimes pay money for.

[liquids]

I believe I read that the guy from Government Mule actually uses a coil cord (or something equaling a long "tone-sucking" cord) because he likes how it warms up his tone.  Hmmm.
-Joe Hart

That's funny if that's true, because Warren is a proponent of CAEs onboard guitar preamps...

http://www.caesound.com/cae_prod_new.html

I couldn't care for his tone, nor most of his playing (especially slide) FYI...but back on pointI think there is something to both the 'effect' of a long cable and a good buffer. Though these days I dislike the lack of control of relying on a cable, and prefer the consistency of as buffered a tone as I can handle, and dialing out frequencies I dislike elsewhere. But Aron, this is hysterical.  Gotta use that curly white hendrix cable in there! 

There is another forum I used to go on regular for music gear, and if some of they got their hands on it, I swear that before they figured out what it was (And some, even afterward) they would go bonkers describing it!  I can hear it now... "the subtle smoothing of the highs the third setting is perfect in conjunction with fuzz faces, and makes my tubescreamer sound like a dumble!" "But wait, is it TB?" 

[Paul Marossy]

I think there is something to both the 'effect' of a long cable and a good buffer. Though these days I dislike the lack of control of relying on a cable, and prefer the consistency of as buffered a tone as I can handle, and dialing out frequencies I dislike elsewhere.

Personally, I am not a fan of true bypassing everything. I say leave well enough alone. Having a non-true bypass pedal or two on your pedal board is good for your tone - it helps with cable losses, etc.

The only two cases where I will 100% support true bypass is on DIY builds and on old wah pedals that really whack the sound when "bypassed". Otherwise, I support Pete Cornish in his argument against true bypass. http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_against_true_bypass.html

Secondarily, I hate harsh treble with a passion. I don't mind a little extra capacitance in my guitar cables at all.

[iaresee]

Anyone remember that box with a 3in length of old cloth insulated wire?

I do! I was trying to find a reference to it's eBay ad to post here. It was the "mojo wire" or something like that.

[wavley]

I've seen lots of pictures of Jimi Hendrix using a coil cord so shouldn't we all?  That is unless Stevie Ray Vaughn didn't use a coil cord, I guess we'll never solve this.

[Gus]

FWIW.   Back when phonographs were the playback method for music.  "higher end" Phono preamps sometimes had adjustable resistive and capacitive loading for different cartridges to get a flatter playback response.

Aron have you measured the capacitance of cables you like with a cap tester?