Suggestions on how to get the bass sound I need on a song...

[Renegadrian]

Folks, I am currently playing bass in a Queensryche cover band - One of my fav bands!!!
Right, Eddie Jackson isn't the best bass player in the world, his parts are not impossible but shall I say he has the right attitude and the right ear, he has WONDERFUL sounds and can play fast metal songs and quiet ballads with the same class and the right fat sound. I love him so much, a lot more of say myths like Steve Harris (which is history, but his sound is like nails on a chalkboard!!!) I am more for a fat, round bass tone.
Said that, I am getting quite good results with my trusty Valvy, it gives a good boost giving "air" and a little break-up when needed without getting into pure overdrive or cutting lotsa frequencies. So I am quite happy about that.

What I'd need to be perfect is some help with a particular song, BEST I CAN - Here we have the bass driving the verse, you can hear his fat sound but there are I believe some synth sound mixed in, and it's very difficult to isolate the two. I'd really love to have something that can add a little "synthy" sound at the main Valvy boosted sound. I have a Zoom 506-II and I had good times with it in the past, but now I feel its limitations (you have several effects, but you cannot modify all their values as you'd expect, so you haven't got say the chorus with depth and rate but c1 <-> c9 with preset values.) So no modulation effects or synth effects of that Zoom ever get close to what I'm after...So I am asking you, people, what could I use to get a similar sound and add a little "synth.like" sound to my main sound for just the verse of that song?!

[Meanderthal]

 Ahhhh, the late 80s... I remember having a lot of trouble finding guys who could sing on helium like that... back then we had a serious keyboard player, all the synthy stuff got handled by him...

The bass sound in that clip is fat alright, but I'm not sure what you mean by synthy? The chorus? I have a 506II as well, it does have chorus, but you're right, very limited control. Anyway, I believe parallell processing might get you close- compressor, splitter, then eq on one channel, dark chorus(chorus + eq) on the other, mix em together. Oh, and a bbe on the tail for good measure... 

[Paul Marossy]

Hmm... in the late 80s/early 90s I remember Hartke aluminum cone speakers being all the rage for bass speakers. I wonder if that ended up in any of their recordings?

Anyhow, it sounds like the bass is doubled with the synth. Perhaps you could get a similar sound using a bass wah kept at one position for that particular tune in conjunction with a bass chorus pedal? I've found on my Colorsound wah clone (in a genuine Colorsound wah enclosure) that at the absolute heel down position it will get very synthy sounding. With a guitar anyway.

[Renegadrian]

Anyhow, it sounds like the bass is doubled with the synth.

Yes that's it! Well, I tried the chorus I have in my Zoom but as I wrote before, you cannot change the values...you have some preset sounds...And neither of that ton of FX (flangers, phasers, bass synths, ecc) get ever close to the sound I'm after.
I have to try the wah thing...THX for the suggestion.

[Paul Marossy]

Anyhow, it sounds like the bass is doubled with the synth.

Yes that's it! Well, I tried the chorus I have in my Zoom but as I wrote before, you cannot change the values...you have some preset sounds...And neither of that ton of FX (flangers, phasers, bass synths, ecc) get ever close to the sound I'm after.
I have to try the wah thing...THX for the suggestion.

Cool. I hope that you can find that sound. And let us know what you had to do to get it!

[ACS]

Awesome Adriano - one of my favourite bands too

If you're talking the sound in the first verse after the intro - then I'm pretty sure that it's actually a synth (or at least doubled with one).  You can quite distinctly hear the held synth chord come in in the same pitch as the bass, then it fades out to the bass octaves up/down each time.

That said - general tips to try getting this sound: lots of mids - play with your eq.  Actually the %^&*ed wah mentioned above would help here.  Could try a couple of different fuzzes perhaps.

Pretty unique sound eh!  What a great band...   Anybody Listening is in my top 5 songs of all time... (Mayonnaise by the Pumpkins is and always will be number one )

And Meanderthal - the singing up high stuff is not just 'some people can do it and others can't - it can definitely be learned.  Prior to two years ago I'd always stood in awe at guys like Bruce Dickenson etc.  Now I front a Guns n' Roses tribute!  Just had to figure the technique out...

[Paul Marossy]

If you're talking the sound in the first verse after the intro - then I'm pretty sure that it's actually a synth (or at least doubled with one).  You can quite distinctly hear the held synth chord come in in the same pitch as the bass, then it fades out to the bass octaves up/down each time.

That said - general tips to try getting this sound: lots of mids - play with your eq.  Actually the %^&*ed wah mentioned above would help here.  Could try a couple of different fuzzes perhaps.

I agree, I think it's a synth line doubling what the bass is doing. I was thinking the stationary wah setting might help with making a certain frequency range really stand out. Works for me with the electric guitar, anyway.

[iaresee]

If you're talking the sound in the first verse after the intro - then I'm pretty sure that it's actually a synth (or at least doubled with one).  You can quite distinctly hear the held synth chord come in in the same pitch as the bass, then it fades out to the bass octaves up/down each time.

That said - general tips to try getting this sound: lots of mids - play with your eq.  Actually the %^&*ed wah mentioned above would help here.  Could try a couple of different fuzzes perhaps.

I agree, I think it's a synth line doubling what the bass is doing. I was thinking the stationary wah setting might help with making a certain frequency range really stand out. Works for me with the electric guitar, anyway.

Oh man, Empire and Operation: Mindcrime formed the soundtrack for junior high for me. Damn. I haven't listened to that track is...years. It still rocks!

Definitely that bass line is doubled. Have you tried a bass synth? Something like the SYB-3? Or the EHX Bass Micro Synth? Optionally a hex pickup to slave to a synth?

[ACS]

Actually the %^&*ed wah mentioned above would help here. 

Haha, the site's anti-swearing bot has had fun there - that was supposed to be 'c o c k e d' wah.  Didn't think that was a swear word...

Ah, you North Americans are too sensitive...

(that was a joke by the way!!)

[Renegadrian]

I have tried some "synth bass" sounds from my zoom, which actually are crazy distortions and some filtering added, I could play Motorhead with them, not Ryche!!! THX for replying!

[edvard]

I once played a Yamaha 12-string bass and it sounded quite synth-y, (but waaay cool...). That's what gave me this idea:

Split your signal into a 'wet' leg and a 'dry' leg.
Octave up + subtle chorus on the wet leg.
EQ on the dry leg to blend the tones a bit.

Don't you have an octaver on that Zoom?
For the money, I've heard the ElectroHarmonix Bass Micro Synth octave effect works well, and I've heard good things about the Boss OC-3.

[thereverend]

you could try something like this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Tir9ewgks

[MarcoMike]

Yeah! you should get that one!!!

then I need to get my diabolik suit ready and pay you a visit...

[Renegadrian]

you could try something like this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Tir9ewgks

[Renegadrian]

Don't you have an octaver on that Zoom?

Yes, but didn't like it at all...Maybe it's because you cannot tweak its values...

[Paul Marossy]

Don't you have an octaver on that Zoom?

Yes, but didn't like it at all...Maybe it's because you cannot tweak its values...

That's lame. I have a Zoom 9030 half rack FX unit that I bought in the early 90s. It allows you tweak every parameter of all the available effects. I still use it for recording today because some of the presets I made from scratch are still some of the best tones I have been able to achieve. Unfortunately, it's not really very good for using in a live setting, and I never use it in that context. 

[iaresee]

I have tried some "synth bass" sounds from my zoom, which actually are crazy distortions and some filtering added, I could play Motorhead with them, not Ryche!!! THX for replying!

Let me rephrase that: have you tried bass synths from something other than the Zoom unit? Specifically a Boss SYB-3 or -5? All your talk of that little unit makes it sound horribly inflexible. I'll try and do a clip for you tonight with one of my effects units. I think I can get that with one of my units.

[Meanderthal]

  The 'synth' bass sounds on the zoom are just combos of badly tracking octave, envelope or lfo filter, distortion (square wave), etc..., but they wind up sounding less like a distorted envelope filter than those other 'synth' pedals. That said, still rather useless. I've been hunting for a useful bass synth for a long time, and unfortunately the tracking just doesn't work out very well for the real ones. It takes a little time to figure out what note you're playing so the synth knows what to do, and since a bass is an octave lower than guitar it takes twice as long. Glitch. The distortion/filter ones work better, but aren't really synths and don't really sound like synths. They can be fun, but they won't sound like a keyboard, and I find myself tiring of them quickly, as I can usually recreate the same sounds by combining other pedals. Haven't tried out the Akai bass synth pedal, I hear that one's unique.

Does your band have a keyboard player? Back in the day, used to do Silent Lucidity, couldn't imagine it without keys...

[Renegadrian]

Ian I have no access to any bass synth...I believe that'd solve my quest!
Paul, altough I am a happy builder, I still love my Zooms (I got 2 3030, 1 2020, 2 9000, 1 2100...) which are all for guitar but the 506-II, which is for bass. I used it in the past with good results, just to add some comp, or tweak the EQ a little, or a little chorus, or a little reverb, but all subtle adds to the main sound. And I got good results, while the 506 hasn't got the tweakability of bigger pedalboards. Now I feel I need something that trusty Zoom cannot give me...
So my question to you guys...
John, no, we haven't got keys in our bands, so altough the sound's quite good already, I'd like to color the verse ald get closer to the record...

[Meanderthal]

 Yeah, I hear ya... with no keyboard player, and 1 guitar player, I often find myself trying this or that to fill the hole in the sound... at this point I don't even think about REcreating sounds,(unless it's pink floyd or something) I just come up with something that works for the song. But, I guess a tribute band is all about re-creating.

I've been trying to get that damned zoom off my pedalboard for years. Nothing out there will do so much for so cheap... but for me the bottom line is that delay when switching between patches, no good in the middle of the song. Is that currently your only pedal?