Klon Centaur alternatives

[captntasty]

Hi all...  I have a client who is looking to me to come up with a small all-in-one fuzz/overdrive/boost stompbox.  He says he used to have a Klon Centaur many moons ago and loved it.  He's looking for the same thing in his OD.  I've found various projects for a Klon clone but am no confident that they would be any better than other , simpler OD designs out there.  Any ideas?  One thing is that he is not interested in a TS type OD...  Suggetions?

[Ripthorn]

A friend of mine uses his Boss SD-1 for both boost and occasional overdrive (he's a shredder, so his Mesa pulls most of the distortion weight).  He seems to really like it and he is very picky about his tone.  I've never used one personally, however.

[Toney]

 Go from one of the most complex, to one of the simplest: the ROG Peppermill.
Piece of cake to build and superb tone-preserving overdrive.

[Mark Hammer]

The Centaur could be used in a large number of ways, and need not be used just to provide a distorted or overdriven input signal to the amp.  For instance, it still provided a hefty clean output signal that could have the treble tamed a bit so as to evoke a smoother overdrive sound from the amp itself.

So, how did your friend use the pedal when he had one?  That might point towards acceptable functional substitutes.  My sense is that he doesn't want any sort of TS derivative.

[MikeH]

One thing is that he is not interested in a TS type OD... 

Good thing.  We can eliminate about 95% of the OD designs around.

The main thing about the klon, is that it splits the signal, with sort of a crossover type thing, and distorts the top end but not the lows.  Keeping it 'clear' (read: 'transparent') and un-muddied.  Which has always had me thinking about a project in the back of my mind- why not have a stompbox the "klonizes" other distortions.  So you'd have a stompbox with an effects loop that passes clean lows, and sends the highs through the loop.  I've been meaning to try this but, it's still a couple hundred items down my list  .  I think it would be great if it worked; I'm not a huge fan of the clipping arrangement (or distortion engine in general) in the klon.  Just my personal preference.

[Ben N]

If he uses the Klon mainly as a boost/light OD, he might like the Barber LTD.

[Serge]

already considered a Hotcake?
read this for a Hotcake vs Klon review by Ken Fisher http://www.klon-siberia.com/swf/magazine.php

[captntasty]

Thanks for all your suggestions...

So, how did your friend use the pedal when he had one?

He used it straight into an AC30 - with the way he described it to me, "the effect gave me a great crunch/overdrive"...  my guess is he want a fairly transparent OD...

I think what I might do is bring him a few OD's and have him audition them to see which he prefers...  it just seems to me that any of the Klon projects are needlessly complex for an OD and that he might be happy with some simpler designs.  He said he might have the old Klon around but that it wasn't functioning when he tried it last (many years ago).  I told him I might be able to repair it so DEFINITELY look for it...  those things are getting ridiculously priced.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Klon-Centaur_W0QQitemZ290339003071QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item43998d9abf&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[Mark Hammer]

Anyone who has dealt with Bill Finnegan will vouch that he is a straight-up guy, the sort who would graciously forfeit a sale if it meant you would be avoiding an unnecessary and frustrating detour on the search for your sound.  If you attempt to buy a Centaur directly from him, he will discuss the pros and cons and optimal uses at length, and figure out if it's "right for you".  He probably puts more time into that discussion than most doctors will for any of the products and pills advertised on TV where they say "Ask your doctor if XXX is right for you".  One of the results of that is that he doesn't produce as many pedals as he might, or as the market demands.

People get annoyed with things like the e-bay sale you link to because ultimately, it WILL be too much to pay.  Mistakenly people focus their ire on Bill, even though he doesn't make a penny from those sorts of sales.  If anything, he loses money because of them.  Why?  Because someone will hear that the Klon is the second coming, spring the bucks for a 2nd hand one on the basis of legend, and in the absence of having that talk with Bill, and be really disappointed.  Then they tell their friends and post scathing comments because they feel they've been cheated.  Meanwhile, Bill didn't set that price tag.

The ideal Klon user is someone who knows their amp well, and understands how to treat the Klon's controls as if they were a part of the amp's input stage.  If you want an overdrive that has a sound that would be identifiable whether you plugged it into a Marshall, an Ampeg B-15, a solid-state late 60's Gibson Titan Medalist, a sound card, or Frontman15, then you do NOT want a Klon.

Okay, back on track.  People have very good things to say about the current Danelectro Transparent Overdrive (and I imagine for the TO2, recently released).  Given its very modest price, it is likely worth a try.  Alternatively, if clean boost is what the doctor ordered, then consider the Visual Sound Truetone.  I was in a big Toronto music store last week, and the folks behind the effects counter (where it was on display) knew absolutely nothing about it, and considered it as basically a higher-priced LPB-1 or Micro-Amp.  The supply-voltage upverter puts it more in the same league as the Klon, which also uses an upverter to increase headroom.  For that reason, at least worth taking out for a stroll in the showroom.

[Ben N]

AC30, eh? The magic combination is supposedly Hotcake>>AC30, so that is what I would go with first. But, really, the best thing to do is just try stuff. Something as simple as Gus's 1-transistor overdrive might be the ticket, or Mark's Crank--something that has the push and the tone-shaping to get the best out of the amp (which is what the Klon supposedly excels at).

[ppatchmods]

i know the sparkledrive is an 808 based pedal, but the clean blend really is nice for transparency! i built the doodoo labs sprinkle drive on markm's layout and it is really nice!

[Ripthorn]

i know the sparkledrive is an 808 based pedal, but the clean blend really is nice for transparency! i built the doodoo labs sprinkle drive on markm's layout and it is really nice!

Do you really have that opinion of them?

[ppatchmods]

no.....that's the actual name of the circuit from markm  
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/MarkMs-Gallery/album15/album76/SprinkleDrive_r_LAYOUT.gif.html

[Ripthorn]

That's just plain awesome.  I love how we don't take ourselves too seriously round here, makes for a great place.

[rogeryu_ph]

I read somewhere that Klon is choosy on AMP and especially most effective with TUBE AMP not with SS AMP, I don't know if it is true...

[Serge]

Since you mentioned he uses an AC30, I'm now even more convinced he needs a Hotcake.  Build him both the 1977 and the 2003 version and see what he likes best.

[Mark Hammer]

I read somewhere that Klon is choosy on AMP and especially most effective with TUBE AMP not with SS AMP, I don't know if it is true...

Somewhere out there is a solid-state amplifier whose output stage produces very nice overdrive when pushed a little harder.  In those cases, perhaps the Centaur could do something useful and desirable for it.  In most instances, though, the Centaur adds most value when pushing a tube amp.  I can say from first-hand experience that Bill is first and foremost an empiricist.  That is, he sets a goal, tweaks values until it sounds right, and is not the sort to design something from theory and then figure out what it sounds good with.  Tube amps are what Bill intended them for, and that will be what they sound best with.

[Paul Marossy]

I read somewhere that Klon is choosy on AMP and especially most effective with TUBE AMP not with SS AMP, I don't know if it is true...

Somewhere out there is a solid-state amplifier whose output stage produces very nice overdrive when pushed a little harder.  In those cases, perhaps the centaur could do something useful and desirable for it.  In most instances, though, the Centaur adds most value when pushing a tbe amp.  I can say from first-hand experience that he is first and foremost an empiricist.  That is, he sets a goal, tweaks values until it sounds right, and is not the sort to design something from theory and then figure out what it sounds good with.  Tube amps are what Bill intended them for, and that will be what they sound best with.

One really good sounding SS amp with killer distortion is the old Lab Series L5, it has a terrific crunch tone to it. Ty Tabor from King's X used it on their first few albums. And BB King has used it as well as Allan Holdsworth. If I wanted a SS amp, that is the one I would be looking at. And even though they are "vintage" amps now, they are pretty inexpensive. They were also designed by Bob Moog, and it was designed very well.

Anyhow, the Klon Centaur might work OK with that particular SS amp.