copyright and patent.

[bluelagoon]

I am very interested in putting together a short run of the Boss FA-1
FET Amp clone effect pedal. I have all the exact components. Was in a
quandary however on what legal rights if any do I have to go ahead with
a limited production no more than 10 likely. Where there may be a
problem with intellectual property rights such as trade mark, copyright
and Patent rights. I would likely be going to sell these at probably
not much of a profit margin. Am wondering since this original Boss
pedal is so old, does this mean possibly that any rights of copyright
or other rights may have expired by now, leaving the way open for any
clone like replications legally possible. I see that there are several
company boutique pedal makers already cloning these pedals. Was just
in need of some better understanding in all this, if someone can please
assist me here. If there are legal obligations, how then do these other
pedal makers get around those requirements ?? and is there a Boss
company phone number or contact that can be made to request permission,
or pay a licensing fee to ? Thanks for any and all contributed advice.

Cheers
Trevor

[anchovie]

Another visit from this type of question!

Don't copy patented inventions.
Don't copy trademarked names.
Don't copy artwork.
Don't copy PCB layouts.

Apart from that, do what you like.

[darron]

I think anchomovie has pretty much got it.

As far as I know, you should legally be alright to clone the pedal. You would need to make your own PCB layout however. Don't advertise it under the same name.

I haven't read this in a while, but I remembered seeing it and found the link:
http://www.muzique.com/clones.htm

[brett]

Hi

Am wondering since this original Boss pedal is so old, does this mean possibly that any rights of copyright or other rights may have expired by now

No.  Not in most countries.  A few countries don't recognise copyright and patents (basically because of concerns over personal gain/greed).

However, your pedal won't look like a Boss and it won't contain Boss parts, and when you sell it you should not refer to it as a Boss pedal or related to Boss pedals.  So there's no problem.  Do your own artwork, make your own layouts and PCBs, have fun and relax.
cheers

[budjb]

If you're sincerely worried about it, you'd probably want to talk to a lawyer about it.

[rotylee]

copyrights expire.

A registered trade mark can be protected forever, provided it is renewed every ten years upon payment of a renewal fee.

is there anything in the pedal boss really invented.
or is it just a bunch of application notes strung together?

to patent something it must be a New idea/approach.

[RedHouse]

Another visit from this type of question!

Don't copy patented inventions.
Don't copy trademarked names.
Don't copy artwork.
Don't copy PCB layouts.

Apart from that, do what you like.

And if you mention the "Boss" name or model number "FA-1" in your advertising description, you will need to include a non-affiliation statement.

This protects you from being sued on the basis of misleading trademark or brand-name association.

For example, if you advertise "...my Super-dooper-drive SDD-1 is a faithful clone of the long discontinued Boss FA-1..."  you will then need a non-affiliation statement somewhere on the same page "my company and the Super-dooper-drive are in no way affiliated with Boss or Korg and FA-1 are trademarks held by their owners"

A registered trade mark can be protected forever, provided it is renewed every ten years upon payment of a renewal fee...
to patent something it must be a New idea/approach...

There are two kinds of Trademark Common Law and Registered. Both are legally acknowleged in court, the benefits of having a registered trademark as compared to a common law trademark include constructive notice nationwide of the trademark owner's claim, more evidence of the ownership of the trademark. Jurisdiction of federal courts may be invoked, registration can be used as a basis for obtaining registration in other countries, registration may be filed with the Customs Service to prevent importation of trademark infringing foreign goods.

In a few words here is the USP&T office's description:

Patents, Trademarks, and Copyrights are three types of intellectual property protection. They are different and serve different purposes.

Patents protect inventions, and improvements to existing inventions.
Trademarks include any word, name, symbol, or device, or any combination, used, or intended to be used in commerce to identify and distinguish the goods of one manufacturer or seller from goods manufactured or sold by others, and to indicate the source of the goods.
Service marks include any word, name, symbol, device, or any combination, used, or intended to be used, in commerce, to identify and distinguish the services of one provider from services provided by others, and to indicate the source of the services.
Copyrights protect literary, artistic, and musical works.



Note two things: Patents can be made on improvements to existing inventions, and a Copyright protects artwork which is what the PCB circuit traces are.

If you are genuinely concerned you should go here and read-up: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/whatis.htm

[MikeH]

If you want to know how close you can come and not get sued, look at pretty much the entire line of Behringer pedals.  Not to mention They make thousands of them, and you're going to make 10.  I think you'll be ok.

[WLS]

If you're sincerely worried about it, you'd probably want to talk to a lawyer about it.

OR A PRIEST!

They are cheaper than a lawer and probably provide about the same level of comfort.

No, seriously just as already mentioned just follow what anchomovie said and you should be all right.


Bill

[budjb]

If you're sincerely worried about it, you'd probably want to talk to a lawyer about it.

OR A PRIEST!

They are cheaper than a lawer and probably provide about the same level of comfort.

No, seriously just as already mentioned just follow what anchomovie said and you should be all right.


Bill

Perhaps, but it won't be priests bringing a real life lawsuit with potentially very real consequences in a court of law.  I'm just saying, the advice here sounds good, but a lawyer ***should*** be able to give you sound legal advice.  That's all.

[aziltz]

If you want to know how close you can come and not get sued, look at pretty much the entire line of Behringer pedals.  Not to mention They make thousands of them, and you're going to make 10.  I think you'll be ok.

behringer got sued though.

[WLS]

If you want to know how close you can come and not get sued, look at pretty much the entire line of Behringer pedals.  Not to mention They make thousands of them, and you're going to make 10.  I think you'll be ok.

behringer got sued though.

I agree, I can't see a company wasting thier time and money in persuing a lawsuit over ten or even a hundered pedals. First they have to send you a letter to stop performing the action. By then you would be done with it anyways.


Bill

[valdiorn]

most pedals build on common electronic texhniques. Unless it's a very unique design that has a patent (that's not expired, I think usually it's 30 years), you are free to do the exact same thing, just don't use the name, look, PCB or artwork of the original. Do that, and they can't do sh*t to you (look at behringer, Boss sued them for their pedals, but all they had to do was change the look of the pedals, that's all).

[rotylee]

actually the Corporate technique is to run with what ever you got stolen or not.
penetrate the market before or further the enemy/competition.
then hope that your sales are so great that the fines are like an ant bite to you.

the constitution was designed to protect we the people.
corporations are fictitious entities that are seldom held responsible for their actions.
they just change names to protect the guilty.

so, incorporate and steal away.
you get caught pay em off or dissolve (like the witch in OZ)

blackwater = XE

blackberry
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/109216/Update_RIM_settles_NTP_patent_fight_with_612.5M_payment?taxonomyId=015
microsoft
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136585/Judge_orders_Microsoft_to_pay_300M_in_Word_patent_case

[panterafanatic]

don't you just love LLC's?...... 

but you should be alright just use the warning the other users have posted.

[bluelagoon]

Thanks so much to everyone's contributed kind advice, much appreciated, gives me a lot more to consider than first aware of. Have over the years become a little edgy stepping on others toes where intellectual property rights exist, so all the various input  here clarifies things a little better, although still a bit grey the whole area. On the same topic, take a look at trabantlands latest bold rendition of the FA-1 pedal. He has done a replication almost same as I first set my mind on, before getting unnerved about the whole affair. kudos to his great clone job., but have to wonder what the Boss people might think ??

Cheers
Trev 

[bluelagoon]

Sorry - Web link to trabantlands latest work --

http://trabantland.wordpress.com/

Cheers
Trev 

[TELEFUNKON]

A nice example from a while ago: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=31253.0

[bluelagoon]

Still can't help but think, even if you were to make an FA-1 Boss Fet amp clone to look a lot like the original Boss unit, same layout appearance with switch, knobs, jacks, all similarly located, and painted in the same lime green color. not sure how this would be a competition problem to Boss's bottom line, as they have long since ceased production on these units for their own sales. So just wondering wether they would be quite as displeased as if someone replicating a current selling product of theirs. just another thought. The topic is getting a little tired now, and have pretty much already decided the way for myself to go on the matter.

Cheers
Trev 

[bluelagoon]

I'm thinking the best advice is - "It's better to forge your own identity and not ride the coat tails of other people". "Do your own artwork, make your own layouts and PCBs, have fun and relax". Thanks guys for all the input.

Cheers
Trev