Maestro Envelope Modifier

[Horace]

I'm thinking of building of these soon (vero, then layout if any good), however am wondering if it is worthwhile.

Has anyone here ever built one or own an original?....if so, what is your opinion of these?

The schematic is freely available at http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/envmod.jpg

The cost of buying an original one seems to be anywhere up to $600.......

There seems to be scant info on the net about how good these are and if anyone has actually built one.

I understand that this will be unsuitable for rapid fire playing, but am sort of hoping it might be at least a bit more versatile than a slow gear........

[Mark Hammer]

Whether it is a "better" design than the Slow Gear is something I think few of us can answer here.  That being said, all such effects have the same challenge, that of reliably identifying the beginning of a musical event, with as few false positives and false negatives as possible.  And, while not impossible, its a tough challenge in the analog domain that also demands feeding it a signal optimized for detection.

I think it is also worth noting that some Maestro factory schematics have known errors in them.  And not just component values, but things connected to the wrong place.  And those are detected errors on more traditional effects (like fuzzes) where people have an appreciation of what the circuit is supposed to be like.  This one is a different sort of beast.

So, while I'm encouraged by your courage, and pleased that it has come up for discussion, my advice would be to leave off throwing yourself at a layout until a few more folks have commented here, and inspected the schematic for what could possibly be wrong with it.

[Horace]

Thanks Mark, that is good advice.

I wasn't going to attempt a pcb layout until after i had breadboarded (or built and got working on vero) first.

You make a good point about intiial conditioning for detection, as i guess that is what "makes or breaks" these types of effects (and is a lot more difficult going all analog as you say).

I guess, at this initial stage, I'm just throwing the idea out there hoping that any owners of this Maestro pedal (or an EH Attack Decay, or similar) might comment on their experiences and whether it is worthwhile pursuing or am better off going for something in the digital realm. It would be especially good to hear about how effectively the factory built pedals detect and whether or not these are actually "playable" effects.

I don't have too much of a problem with experimentation in finding correct values and circuit topology, and do have access to some good test gear (my day job is as a telecommunications engineer(mainly in satcoms)).

When I was a teenager (many years ago), I built a similar type of pedal from a schematic in an old electronics book (this book had about 8-900 pages) borrowed form a library. It worked reasonably well with single notes (lousy with chords) and had an additional sustain control. I cannot for the life of me remember the title of the book and the library I borrowed it from is long gone. If anyone might on the off-chance know of the circuit I'm talking about, could they please post here with any info.

[gigimarga]

Have anyone an ideea where I can find a soundclip of it?

[gigimarga]

Anyone has some informations about the transistors and diodes?

[Horace]

I'd probably begin with the garden variety BC54x type for the transistors and IN914 type diodes.

It would be good to hear what other peoples experiences are with this particular stompbox before trying to build from the schem above (unless you have lots of time to spare of course). If it isn't really a worthwhile stompbox, why go to the trouble?....there are probably better envelope modifier schems out there.

As Mark pointed out, the initial signal detection for these types of (analogue) effects can be very "hit or miss". One day, if I ever get the time, I'll sit down and have a look at the detection/sensitivity stage or do something in the digital realm.

[solderman]

Another design if you want accuracy

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=78203.0

Or build it and try it out. Seems like all components are readily available and cheap so you can trough it away if you don't like it with no regrets. 

[gigimarga]

Thx both of you for your replies!

Anyway, I will try to made a PCB for Maestro, because I am a big fan of their stompboxes.
The DOD sounds very nice too, so I will try it too...

The only stompboxes that I never made to work was a Boss Slow Gear clone, so I am very curious about this type of effect.

[edd29]

Thx both of you for your replies!

Anyway, I will try to made a PCB for Maestro, because I am a big fan of their stompboxes.
The DOD sounds very nice too, so I will try it too...

The only stompboxes that I never made to work was a Boss Slow Gear clone, so I am very curious about this type of effect.

let us know if you've got it to work the maestro. thanks!

[gigimarga]

let us know if you've got it to work the maestro. thanks!

i am very busy now with my job, so i think it will need one month to finish...

[Jason M.]

I've had the pleasure of playing the Maestro Envelope Modifier, EH Attack Decay and the Boss Slow gear.
This is my assesment of the envelope modifier, which is highly subjective.

It has more controls than the slow gear, but isn't as versatile in the way you can manipulate and "play" the effect with changes in pick attack/playing dynamics.
The envelope detector takes longer to reset between events so forget about moderately fast runs.
Perhaps the detector can be modified.
It works on single notes and chords like the slow gear. One cool feature on the envelope modifier is the decay or sustain control. It can be set short to sound like a toy piano.

The EH Attack Decay has the best tracking and more tonal options with its built in distortion, but is limited to single notes only.
I've looked inside that thing and it is crazy!

I would definitely build an envelope modifier if someone verified the schem, but you might be disappointed with the end result. It is probably worth more to collectors because of its rarity than to players because of its functionality.

I keep going back to the slow gear, but would love to try the pigtronix attack delay designed by the same guy who unleashed the EH Attack Decay to the world.

[edd29]

I've had the pleasure of playing the Maestro Envelope Modifier, EH Attack Decay and the Boss Slow gear.
This is my assesment of the envelope modifier, which is highly subjective.

It has more controls than the slow gear, but isn't as versatile in the way you can manipulate and "play" the effect with changes in pick attack/playing dynamics.
The envelope detector takes longer to reset between events so forget about moderately fast runs.
Perhaps the detector can be modified.
It works on single notes and chords like the slow gear. One cool feature on the envelope modifier is the decay or sustain control. It can be set short to sound like a toy piano.

The EH Attack Decay has the best tracking and more tonal options with its built in distortion, but is limited to single notes only.
I've looked inside that thing and it is crazy!

I would definitely build an envelope modifier if someone verified the schem, but you might be disappointed with the end result. It is probably worth more to collectors because of its rarity than to players because of its functionality.

I keep going back to the slow gear, but would love to try the pigtronix attack delay designed by the same guy who unleashed the EH Attack Decay to the world.

have you heard about swell pedal ?


here' the topic link http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76457.msg636626#msg636626

here's the schematic http://www.dirk-hendrik.com/temp/dod_fx15.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWdWrgiCQoY

[Horace]

Thanks Jason, your assessment is just what I was after.

From the looks of things, there is probably no such thing as a "do it all" envelope modifier and is probably best (for me anyway), to have 2 or 3 different "application specific" envelope modifiers, such as:

1.  The Swell Pedal 2.0 for faster electric guitar stuff (for accuracy, as Solderman and edd29 kindly pointed out), where i use a hard pick.

2. The Maestro (or EH, or Slow Gear, or even maybe buy a Pigtronix........though prefer to build and tweak) for slower electric and amped acoustic.

Let me know how you go gigimarga, I'll try to breadboard or sim the Maestro schem over the next week and post how it goes.