[The Lamuki's Belch. Reports, logs, assistance]Tube Screamer clone w/mods [in pr

[EARNEST]

Hm...I see, thanks.
Also, to get more xp, I am still trying to understand B.May's treble booster. I used 2n5088 transistor and I have really weird "overdrive". Is it normal?
Thanks.
Here is the sample file
http://rapidshare.com/files/280026395/bmay_treble_booster_test.mp3

any help pls?

[EARNEST]

[Semi-Major Update, Progress 5%]
1. I've managed to build TS clone following this guide. The next step is to build [the same] TS, but on my own, no peeking
2. Although I've managed to more-or-less understand what is going on, lack of skills and knowledge slow me down, thus I've tried to gain those by doing a "mini side project" (see number 3), nevertheless, before I try to move to more advanced TS schematics....I'd need to try to build more "side projects"
3. I haven't managed to solve the problem with B.May's treble booster; not sure if that type of sound is normal, most probably something is wrong (2n5088?). Any help please?
4. Tone pot is now under control. B25K pot was swapped with B10K.
5. I've noticed if D1 diode is removed and B500K is fully engaged, I have some extra gain... (using 1n4001 diode). Any explanations, please?
6. Ok, the gain pot...I feel like I don't have enough of it. I guess, this is normal, TS is not a high-gain pedal...so I'd need to add certain mods  that would give me more gain!
---
Later on, I shall try to record some sound clips and share them with you, guys.
But for now, here are some pics.
My working place (too messy) and the board (the 2nd panel, the 1st is B.May's booster)
[heavy photos]:

http://img21.imageshack.us/i/15092009001o.jpg/
http://img198.imageshack.us/i/15092009.jpg/

[spaceace76]

1. awesome! did you figure out what went wrong the first time?
2. don't worry about learning everything all at once. it will take some time and quite a bit of reading, building, and mistake making before you've really got the hang of it. stompbox-ing is a multi-faceted discipline, there's lots to learn and taking it one step at a time is preferable. one project can be overwhelming enough, don't jump into more until you work all the bugs out of the ones you've already got. which leads me to...
3. the sound your brian may is producing is definitely not normal. it's meant to be a clean-ish treble boost, but yours sounds extremely fuzzy. my guess is at least one of the transistors is mis-biased. double, triple, quadruple check all your values, connections, battery, jacks, pinouts, etc.
6. i'm not a TS fan, so i'm not much help with mods, or why you get more gain when removing the diodes. i think you're just changing the way the circuit clips

it's a little hard to tell what's going on in the pictures. what schematic did you use for the treble boost?

[EARNEST]

1. Most probably wiring
3. Instead of 2.4K, I used 2.2K resistor. And I am not sure about 47nF cap, I used something different, it was marked as µ47J100
Schematic: http://www.beavisaudio.com/bboard/projects/bbp_BMTrebleBoost.pdf
Thanks for your help.

[petemoore]

  Follow the debug technique: What to do when it doesn't work [sticky thread].
  Every bit of info on that thread is good to follow.
  Measuring the voltages that appear on the transistor pins is always a good idea after a stage is populated.
  I use this order after populating, make sure the +/- of the power supply aren't connected, apply power, measure transistor pins [or other active components] for bais.

[spaceace76]

+1 to everything petemoore said. the TS is a popular pedal, so you should be able to find tons of debugging info on here with a good search. the brian may boost probably has good debug info as well.

the resistor sub should probably be fine. measure that cap, though. i'm not sure if you've mentioned if you own one, but you should have a multimeter to measure voltages, component values, continuity, etc.

[EARNEST]

Heys, guys.
How is it going?
Managed to build "light" TS on my own. Although, I had some difficulties with pots wiring
Anyways, the next step is normal TS808. And then, BYOC's or something else.
Can you help me out with this schematic, pls. I cannot understand what's happening there and why it is there:

My guess:
1. V+, we connect all V+s together, the same trace...
2. The same for Vr? But what is Vr? Ground?
3. I am confused... the power source' (9V) positive leads to that circled area (what is that?), and its negative leads to the INput field...I'm really confused Any help, please?

Thanks

[foxx]

In the case of the TS Vr is the 'virtual' ground, it is a voltage of 4.5V, created by the two 10k resistors. The chip wants to see positive and negative voltage, so it virtually gets +4.5V and -4.5V with the ground (normally 0V) being shifted to the real 4.5V.
All points the refer to the Vr are connected to the Vr-point in the circle, same with the V+. It is a simplifiction in the schematic to have a reference name (Vr, V+)  and connecting points to this name instead of really drawing the connections, which can get pretty confusing because of crossing lines.

Hope this helps

Greetz

[EARNEST]

I see, thanks mate. Although, I did not fully understand virtual ground and its purpose

[foxx]

I try to explain. The 4558 (as any similar opamp like the TL072 or the NE5532) need to be feed with a positive and a negative voltage (V+ and V-) which needs to be identical. That means, if you feed for example +1V in V+, you have to put -1V at V- . The battery only gives you +9V and 0V, but the chip here demands +4.5V and -4.5V. The trick is, these voltages are seen in respective to the voltage of the signal. Normaly, your signal oscillates around 0V. Now, by connecting the signalpath to Vr i.e. +4.5V, your signal oscillates around +4.5V with the same amplitude and frequency of course. The opamp now gets in V+ a voltage, that is 4.5V higher than the signal (9V from the battery - 4.5V from the signal = +4.5V) and in V- the voltage is 4.5V lower than the signal (0V  from the battery - 4.5V from the signal = -4.5V). So you create a virtual bipolar voltage for the opamp by lifting the signal up +4.5V and so creating a virtual ground voltage for the chip.

I hope my description is not to confusing. 

[EARNEST]

Thanks, yeah its not confusing now

[EARNEST]

I am almost done (breadboard version) with this  schematic, but I have a problem. I do not know what I should do with the field that is between the IN jack and 9V negative side....Any help here, please? Do I connect stereo's input lug with the 0.027uF cap and stereo jack's negative lug with the 9v "-ve" terminal?
P.S. Also, I've dropped 9 DC in sector, so the "+ve" terminal of the battery is directly defined as V+, while Vr and Ground are paralleled to it, I've measured and I have almost 4.5V (~4.2V)...I hope it won't affect the pedal in any way.
Anyway...I am almost done, I just need to "fix" the INPUT thingy.
Also, pins 4 and 8 of the IC are not shown on the schematic...what do I do with those?
Thanks in advance for your help....

[EARNEST]

Not sure, if my pedal sounds ok. How can I make sure it works the way it should work?
Sample: http://rapidshare.com/files/282188482/ts808_test.mp3
(guitar w/EMG 81/85@18V -> breadboard -> laptop's Line-In port, software Audacity)
---------------
00:00-00:57  drive min, tone min, vol max (bridge/neck pups)
00:57-1:34    drive max, tone min, vol max (mix pups)
1:35+   drive max, tone max, vol max (mix pups)
---------------
Is that the sound that normal TS808 should make?  

Pictures: http://img401.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=19092009r.jpg
I am not sure if i did clipping section Ok (pins 1-2, it is a bit confusing). Can you check it pls?

Substitutions:
(2n5088 transistors are used)
1. 511K res instead of 510K
2. 47K+2.7K+1K resistors in series instead of 51K res
3. B10K tone, B100K volume pots
That's it, I guess....

[EARNEST]

Couple of extra questions I cannot answer
1. What is the difference between the one I am using now (normal TS808) and
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/ts-808.jpg (apart from extra transistors,resistors etc)
I thought the one I am building is the old school pedal Ibanez/Maxon used to produce (is producing).
2. How can I fix tone pot "characteristics": the real noticeable difference can be heard when the tone pot is either fully min'ed or max'ed

Not sure, if my pedal sounds ok. How can I make sure it works the way it should work?
Sample: http://rapidshare.com/files/282188482/ts808_test.mp3
(guitar w/EMG 81/85@18V -> breadboard -> laptop's Line-In port, software Audacity)
---------------
00:00-00:57  drive min, tone min, vol max (bridge/neck pups)
00:57-1:34    drive max, tone min, vol max (mix pups)
1:35+   drive max, tone max, vol max (mix pups)
---------------
Is that the sound that normal TS808 should make?  

Pictures: http://img401.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=19092009r.jpg
I am not sure if i did clipping section Ok (pins 1-2, it is a bit confusing). Can you check it pls?

Substitutions:
(2n5088 transistors are used)
1. 511K res instead of 510K
2. 47K+2.7K+1K resistors in series instead of 51K res
3. B10K tone, B100K volume pots
That's it, I guess....

[spaceace76]

Couple of extra questions I cannot answer
1. What is the difference between the one I am using now (normal TS808) and
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/ts-808.jpg (apart from extra transistors,resistors etc)
I thought the one I am building is the old school pedal Ibanez/Maxon used to produce (is producing).
2. How can I fix tone pot "characteristics": the real noticeable difference can be heard when the tone pot is either fully min'ed or max'ed

Not sure, if my pedal sounds ok. How can I make sure it works the way it should work?
Sample: http://rapidshare.com/files/282188482/ts808_test.mp3
(guitar w/EMG 81/85@18V -> breadboard -> laptop's Line-In port, software Audacity)
---------------
00:00-00:57  drive min, tone min, vol max (bridge/neck pups)
00:57-1:34    drive max, tone min, vol max (mix pups)
1:35+   drive max, tone max, vol max (mix pups)
---------------
Is that the sound that normal TS808 should make?  

Pictures: http://img401.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=19092009r.jpg
I am not sure if i did clipping section Ok (pins 1-2, it is a bit confusing). Can you check it pls?

Substitutions:
(2n5088 transistors are used)
1. 511K res instead of 510K
2. 47K+2.7K+1K resistors in series instead of 51K res
3. B10K tone, B100K volume pots
That's it, I guess....

yours sounds slightly fuzzier than i would expect (again, not much of a TS fan). it should be something of a clean boost, like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMRcph3E_v4

it could be that you're using high-output pickups. that might give the pedal more breakup like yours has.

the extra parts of that circuit are used for switching. it just turns the pedal on and off, and you'd have to remove it if you're not using a switch (which you have to do since you're on breadboard) or if using true bypass. the schematic you built yours from is perfectly fine.

as far as your tone control, does it radically change from one setting to another? is the change in tone very quick at either end of the knob? that could just be a difference in taper, or perhaps it's connected wrong. i'm sure you double checked it when you noticed it though.

hope that helps

[EARNEST]

yours sounds slightly fuzzier than i would expect (again, not much of a TS fan). it should be something of a clean boost, like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMRcph3E_v4

it could be that you're using high-output pickups. that might give the pedal more breakup like yours has.

the extra parts of that circuit are used for switching. it just turns the pedal on and off, and you'd have to remove it if you're not using a switch (which you have to do since you're on breadboard) or if using true bypass. the schematic you built yours from is perfectly fine.

as far as your tone control, does it radically change from one setting to another? is the change in tone very quick at either end of the knob? that could just be a difference in taper, or perhaps it's connected wrong. i'm sure you double checked it when you noticed it though.

hope that helps

Thanks,
Damn it..I really don't know why it is a bit fuzzy Everything is checked, transistors are plugged in a right way
I'm clueless
Maybe it is because of Line-In...On my Bugera 6262-212 amp it is not that fuzzy :-/
I will try to breadboard it again...

just be a difference in taper, or perhaps it's connected wrong

can you explain the first thing, please?

[spaceace76]

i'd imagine that the line in on your computer has less headroom than your amp. that would also account for fuzzyness. it sounds like your pedal is totally fine! no need to breadboard it over again.

taper is a term used to describe the manner in which the resistance in a pot increases through it's travel. here's a graph of the different tapers, from RG's Secret life of pots:


http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm

there's a whole section on taper there, labeled "Which Leads Us To Tapering"

the common tapers are linear, log/audio, and reverse log/audio. the tapers are indicated by the A and B prefixes before pot values. basically, if most of the change in resistance is on one small section of the pot travel, the control won't do much until it hits that section, and it'll happen all at once. i just noticed you used 10k instead of 20k. that would affect it's effectiveness as well. if you don't have a 20k pot at the moment, play with the value of that .22uF cap and see if you find something that works for you.

[EARNEST]

I see, thanks. I breadboarded it again. The same sound So I guess that's the way it should sound (unless I messed something up :-) ).
Now I will try to draw a layout for it and then I will start making a PCB. After that, I will start working on more advanced TS with more mods.
Not sure if I should keep the standard TS or sell it Kinda low on cash

[EARNEST]

To create your own layout is more difficult than I thought LOL

[EARNEST]

OK...
[MAJOR UPDATE, progress 30%]
1. As you might know, I've just finished the light and normal TS808 (successfully breadboarded), so now it is time to move, I think, to some more advanced schematics.
2. decomposition of the project helped me to grasp almost every aspect of it; technique of increasing level of difficulty with every successful build and increasing/decreasing abstraction on a certain schematic sector whenever needed - help a lot, I suggest to do the same to every newbie.
3. as I understood, the sound between breadboarded version and the "real" is completely different, so maybe that is the reason I was getting extra fuzz.
4. still learning many new things, and still there are many questions
---
5. Concerning number 1, I've analyzed GGG ITS8 and BYOC OD2 and, if I am correct, they are not that different and they are not THAT difficult...As result, I will accept the challenge I will build standard TS808 I've built already, however I will integrate:
 A) several diode/FETs/LEDs/etc clippers (most probably, a rotary switch will be used) either on a different PCB(prefboard) or on the same board
 B) "fatness" selection
 C) polarity protection
 D) booster (50:50)
 E) extra nice mods
6. As a reminder, I am planning to build the pedal 100% hand-made, so it will take some time....I've realised that drawing your own layout is not fun and easy as I thought, it gave me a headache :-/
7. I am afraid of the size....I do not want to have huge a$$ pedal, so any suggestions are welcomed here
Ok, that's all for now
Pictures:
http://img9.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=20092009.jpg
---------------------------
---------------------------
[Questions]
Q1. http://img10.imageshack.us/i/20092009180049.png/
    A) the diode is for polarity "safety', right?
    B) why is there 100uF cap? :-/
Q2. BYOC's OD2 schematic does not show polarity "safety", right? They did not include it or what? page 38, http://buildyourownclone.com/overdrive2instructions.pdf
Q3. What should I pay attention to when I design my own layout? Can tracks of 9V+, 9V-, Vr "run" near each other? How far should In and Out be from those? Is it ok to use (overuse) jumpers (0 ohm resistors)?
Thanks in advance.