DIY overdrive for Holdsworth-esque lead tones?

[Super Locrian]

What is your favourite mid- to high gain DIY overdrive that is not a TS/RAT/Guv'nor/etc. clone ?

[SteveB]

I'd like to know, too.  Especially from the IOU & Metal Fatigue era, & a bit of Bruford's One Of A Kind.

[Ben N]

Think Joe Davisson/Analog Alchemy: Any of the many Obsidian and Vulcan variants.

[Paul Marossy]

I'm a Holdsworth fan and I have always liked his tones a lot. I recently put a vintage 80s Seymour Duncan Allan Holdsworth pickup in my Parker Mojo Nitefly, and I am really liking that guitar so much better now.

Anyhow, I think that pickup has a lot to do with trying to get his tone. I have tried all sorts of stuff, and nothing got me as close as having this pickup in one of my guitars. I don't know of many humbucking pickups on the market that have a 16.2K DC resistance, a resonant peak of 5.5kHz and double screws, and that is part of of the sound right there.

As far as pedals go, I would say that there are some things out there that work for me. Allan likes to get power tube distortion, and that's why he designed that Juice Extractor/Harness amp attenuator that he claims isn't an amp attenuator (See http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=59300.0). To my surprise, I found that my old 1964 Gregory Mark X with a 12" alnico speaker paired up with the Nitefly thru my Blackstone Appliances MOSFET OD clone gets pretty close to his tone on some of his recordings. The MOSFET OD kind of gives it a middy singing quality and the amp gets a nice power tube distortion, too. They all work together in concert.

I think that a Boss Metal Zone EQ'd the right way could also get something similar. I used to use my Metal Zone a lot to get singing lead tones, and it sounded pretty good. It's really more than a one trick pony.

[zeeman]

Allan making the guitar his bitch.

What the heck does he do at around 4:40???

I too am a Holdsworth fan. I have seen him live a few times and seeing him play in person is simply mind-boggling.

I should also say that I had a chance to talk to him for a few minutes and he is SUPER SUPPER NICE and EXTREMELY HUMBLE.

As far as getting his tone, I would suggest a BSIAB2.

zeeman

[Paul Marossy]

I have that "instructional" video. It's really more like a studio concert. Anyhow, lots of great playing on that. I really like Chad's tune called "Tell Me", Allan sounds great on that one and Chad is also quite something on that tune (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWpAFvHduPE). Allan seems to favor that Bill DeLap headless guitar a lot. I think that he is at his prime at this point in time here, just some incredible playing.  Although his live concert at Yoshi's from a couple of years ago has some fantastic playing on it as well. I'll probably never get to see him play in real life, he never comes to Las Vegas, AFAIK.

In any case, I agree that a BSIAB might also work. Anything that has a nice sustain and singing quality but not massive amounts of gain will help.

Allan making the guitar his bitch.

What the heck does he do at around 4:40???

I too am a Holdsworth fan. I have seen him live a few times and seeing him play in person is simply mind-boggling.

I should also say that I had a chance to talk to him for a few minutes and he is SUPER SUPPER NICE and EXTREMELY HUMBLE.

As far as getting his tone, I would suggest a BSIAB2.

zeeman

[liquids]

Allan making the guitar his bitch.

What the heck does he do at around 4:40???

I too am a Holdsworth fan. I have seen him live a few times and seeing him play in person is simply mind-boggling.

I should also say that I had a chance to talk to him for a few minutes and he is SUPER SUPPER NICE and EXTREMELY HUMBLE.

As far as getting his tone, I would suggest a BSIAB2.

zeeman

Yeah, while much of his tone is the way he phrases notes, legato, etc, his tone is very full in the mids.  As far as a straight pedal to do that, I'd also say breadboard up a a BSIAB...but not quite stock.  For starters, don't use any j201s (they are very fizzy, which is not condusive to smooth tones) and possible mod the tone control cap from 22nf to something like 4n7 or 3n3, so that it leaves the mids intact.   See if you like that.  What amp are you going to be running into?

[Paul Marossy]

My vintage Seymour Duncan Holdsworth pickup is very middy. I can't get the same sounds out of any of my other guitars, no matter how I set the pickups, amp or what stompbox I use. YMMV.

[aron]

>Anyhow, I think that pickup has a lot to do with trying to get his tone. I have tried all sorts of stuff, and nothing got me as close as having this pickup in one of my guitars. I don't know of many humbucking pickups on the market that have a 16.2K DC resistance, a resonant peak of 5.5kHz and double screws, and that is part of of the sound right there.

I'm using the Surh DSV and it's good for me. I have no idea how it relates to the Holdsworth pickup except that Scott Henderson references Alan re: this pickup.

[Paul Marossy]

>Anyhow, I think that pickup has a lot to do with trying to get his tone. I have tried all sorts of stuff, and nothing got me as close as having this pickup in one of my guitars. I don't know of many humbucking pickups on the market that have a 16.2K DC resistance, a resonant peak of 5.5kHz and double screws, and that is part of of the sound right there.

I'm using the Surh DSV and it's good for me. I have no idea how it relates to the Holdsworth pickup except that Scott Henderson references Alan re: this pickup.

As in this is what pickup Allan is using these days? When I think of Allan's tone, I think mostly about his late 80s/early 90s sound, and I believe that is from the Seymour Duncan pickups.

I'm not trying to say that is the only way to get his sound, but it sure was the missing ingredient for me. It just has a certain resonance in the upper midrange that I could only get using my '72 Maestro Boomerang wah pedal in a stationary position (like a "Q" filter) before changing the bridge pickup.

[aron]

>When I think of Allan's tone, I think mostly about his late 80s/early 90s sound, and I believe that is from the Seymour Duncan pickups.

The Suhr is supposed to be closer to the SD pickups in vibe - don't know about how much in terms of copying the specs.

[BAARON]

As in this is what pickup Allan is using these days?

He's probably using Carvin pickups today, if he's staying true to his 13 year endorsement.  Not only do they make a signature Holdsworth guitar, but they also make signature Holdsworth pickups.
http://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/guitars/index.php?model=h2 One model
http://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/guitars/index.php?model=hf2 The other model
http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/group.php?cid=82 Scroll to the bottom for the H22N (neck) and H22T (treble/bridge) pickups.

[StephenGiles]

I think that you need his fingerprints on the ICs or better still - his fingers!

[Paul Marossy]

As in this is what pickup Allan is using these days?

He's probably using Carvin pickups today, if he's staying true to his 13 year endorsement.  Not only do they make a signature Holdsworth guitar, but they also make signature Holdsworth pickups.
http://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/guitars/index.php?model=h2 One model
http://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/guitars/index.php?model=hf2 The other model
http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/group.php?cid=82 Scroll to the bottom for the H22N (neck) and H22T (treble/bridge) pickups.

Yeah, I know about the Carvin pickups and guitars. But he used his DeLap and Steinberger a lot in the time period I am thinking of, which is pre-Carvin era. And I believe those guitars used the Seymour Duncan signature pickup. I liked his sound the best in that time period. Although, I think his sound on "The Sixteen Men Of Tain" is very good, but I'm not sure exactly what guitars he used on that album. I have every one of his albums, except for two.

I think that you need his fingerprints on the ICs or better still - his fingers!

I agree. It's more than the pickups, you need his brain and his fingers. But it's not easy to get his tone, either.

[joegagan]

just stumbled across this.

for what it is worth, i had the same experience with holdsworth signature pickups, but in an 86 holdsworth ibanez ( found in a pawnshop with the headstock paint sanded off for $55)

the guitar just sounded like holdsworth's tone when you played it through almost any amp.

i recall seeing promo material for that series, ibanez said they worked closely with alan to get the pickups right for him.

[Paul Marossy]

just stumbled across this.

for what it is worth, i had the same experience with holdsworth signature pickups, but in an 86 holdsworth ibanez ( found in a pawnshop with the headstock paint sanded off for $55)

the guitar just sounded like holdsworth's tone when you played it through almost any amp.

i recall seeing promo material for that series, ibanez said they worked closely with alan to get the pickups right for him.

In the case of the Seymour Duncan Allan Holdsworth pickup that I have, according to Dereck Duncan (of Seymour Duncan), it is modeled around the JB model with the main difference being the double screws.

The resonant peak of that pickup is around 5.5kHz and the DC resistance that I measured was about 16.2K. If I could plot the frequency response of it, I would expect to see a strong midrange hump. I like it because it sounds a lot like my other favorite neck pickup the DiMarzio FRED in terms of all the harmonics and stuff, but it has that Holdsworth midrange thing going on at the same time. It has that midrange resonance that I used to only be able to get by using my SD Jazz pickup on the neck in conjunction with my Maestro Boomerang in a fixed position. Now I don't really use that wah pedal much anymore, and it's not hard at all to get Holdsworth sounding stuff out of my guitar. I am a very happy camper with this pickup, it will ALWAYS be in my Parker Mojo Nitefly. I get a lot more good comments about my tone since I put the AH pickup in it, too.

[WGTP]

The boys at the Seymour Duncan Forum have been experimenting with changing the pole pieces in their pickups.  Usually it involves trading Hex and Flat Head screws around.  The Full Shred (my favorite for distortions) and the Screaming Demon have double rows to mess with.  I recently put all flat heads under the plain strings and all hex under the wound strings of my Screaming Demon and really like it.  I seems to make the wound and plain strings sound more similar.  The screws have a more bell like tone and the hex are more focused and brighter.  I suspect that the change in magnetic field/mass/material of the poles cause this effect.  They also saw off the flat head screws that stick down below the pickup up which reduces the mass/inductance and alters the magnetic field.

They have also started mixing coils from different pickups.  The '59/Custom seems to be the most popular

They also have been switching out magnets.  Alnico 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 and Ceramic. 

I have notice at the DiMarzio forum that they add mass in the form of unmagnetized slugs into gaps in the coils from underneath.  This is part of DM dual resonance system and the boys are experimenting with this to alter tone.

Many possibilities for tailoring/tweeking your tone.

If you can find 2 broken pickups usually 1 of the cols still works and you can mix them, if they fit physically.

EQ must play a big part in Allens tone

Be careful it can be as addictive as building stomp boxes.

I HAVE ALWAYS FELT THE IMPACT OF PICKUPS ON DISTORTIONS IS UNDERESTIMATED AT THIS FORUM.   

[rousejeremy]

FWIW, vintage Holdsworth. Clean SG tone and picking almost every note.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIC-nJRcgeU&feature=related

[Paul Marossy]

EQ must play a big part in Allens tone

Be careful it can be as addictive as building stomp boxes.

I HAVE ALWAYS FELT THE IMPACT OF PICKUPS ON DISTORTIONS IS UNDERESTIMATED AT THIS FORUM.  

Yeah, pickups totally have a LOT to do with it. I'm not sure how much Allan messes with his EQ, but I suspect that he is just as picky about it as I am. I don't use an EQ pedal of any sort, but I do tweak the EQ on my amps quite a bit to get the sound "just right". The SD AH pickup has a lot of the tone in it, because of the resonant frequency(s). I think there must be a dominant one and a secondary one as well.

Anyway, also interesting stuff you mentioned above about pickup experimentation.

FWIW, vintage Holdsworth. Clean SG tone and picking almost every note.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIC-nJRcgeU&feature=related

Yeah, his tone and technique was a bit different then. More like Al Di Meola than later fat sounding legato Holdsworth. But he still had the "sheets of sound" thing going on even back then.

[stringsthings]

a very long, long time ago, i was in a bookshop .... and i was reading a magazine article on Holdsworth .... he was discussing his preference for pickups ....

Q: so, Allan, what do you look for in a pickup?

Holdsworth:  i'm very picky about what pickups i use !