Sustain (Never Ending Notes?)

[Rawkgod]

Hey guys, I was wondering if there was a sustain that indefinite.  I saw that really cool Moog Guitar and wanted something that held up sustain without getting feedback.

http://www.moogmusic.com/moogguitar/?section=product&product_id=21344

I saw some kind of sustaining pickup. I think it was from Fernandez. I was some reviews of the pickups, but it gave feedback. I was also wondering if anyone had experience with these pickups, or anything of the like.
A pedal would be good, but I'll take whatever I can.

Thanks in advance

[anchovie]

Nothing DIY, I would imagine. You'd need some kind of digital delay with looping capability and then use it to sample the note you were playing after the initial pick attack. Then mute the guitar to avoid any pickup feedback and let the delay repeat the note indefinitely.

[petemoore]

  Frequency controlled feedback loop of loud guitar...requires loudness.
 Or a less than solid body guitar for similar effect, less loud, more prone to being hard to control [or out of control].
 When it's working, the amp/speaker/air/body of guitar/strings/pickups/amp form a feedback loop, the strings controlling the frequency.
 Put the head of the guitar pressed against a sort of cranked speaker cabinet to get an idea of how that can work, but the mechanical interface [cabinet drives guitar to vibrate through it's head] of course is different.
 Another variant is have a driver or speaker in the guitar, directly transducing electrical energy mechanically to the guitar body.
 Another way to get that is Ebow.
 or the Fernandez sustainer pickup, which as I understand it pulses the strings with magnetic forces to induce sustained string oscillation..and frequency controlled [string control] infinite sustain.
 There have been DIY versions/variataions of this design.
 Compressor brings signal up as the string/guitar output fades, if 10 seconds of ''Compression Faked Sustain", that may be enough.
 Big Muff Pie can compress hard, and add lots of harmonics, Distortion or Fuzz can have the effect to get more string sustain at lower volume levels than clean...if everything else ''allows''. it has the reputation of being a 'sustainey' distortion pedal.
 .

[Ripthorn]

If you go to projectguitar.com they have a DIY sustainer project there.  The guy Pete who has developed it is always ready to help.  It does have its quirks, but works well.  As for something not mounted on the guitar, you have the ebow (there is the enigmatic infinite guitar system that is not public as well).  Not anything in the pedal form factor that I know of.

[BAARON]

I saw some kind of sustaining pickup. I think it was from Fernandez. I was some reviews of the pickups, but it gave feedback. I was also wondering if anyone had experience with these pickups, or anything of the like.

The Fernandez system has a feedback feature that automatically causes it to jump up an octave as it sustains.  But you can turn that off and just use it for sustain.

http://www.sustainiac.com/ sells sustainers too.

Building your own sustainer is about as simple as wiring your bridge pickup up to a Ruby 386 amp and connecting that to an 8 ohm driver coil instead of a speaker.  The coil goes where your neck pickup should be.  It sounds simple, and in theory, it is, but it's delicate work and requires finding unusual parts if you want it to look professional.  (There's a bit more to it than what I just described, but that's the gist of it.)


Ebow: they are incredibly cool.  I have seen people do some fantastic things with an Ebow.

[Taylor]

I have a [http://www.sustainiac.com/]Sustainiac[/url] in my bass; it's lots of fun. The Moog guitar is likely just 6 sustainers - one for each string. Processing is done in the loop between the pickup and the sustainer coil to get the special mute and selective sustain modes. Doing it to this extent would be an insanely complex undertaking, but if you can live without the special modes, building a hexaphonic sustainer is not impossible.

The regular sustainers are not able to sustain all 6 strings simultaneously. You can do one or two and sometimes 3, but generally no more.

[Brymus]

Forget the high priced sustainers check this out from Banica http://diy-fever.com/index.php?project=sustainer
I have this on my list for an old squier I'm gonna re-do.

[Ripthorn]

Forget the high priced sustainers check this out from Banica http://diy-fever.com/index.php?project=sustainer
I have this on my list for an old squier I'm gonna re-do.

This is the sustainer project at projectguitar.com

[bancika]

yes, I got if from PG forum. The only diff is that I used regular guitar pickup as a starting point rather than making my own bobbin, magnet, poles etc.
I reckon, if discrete poles are good enough for pickups why not use it for drivers

[DUY1337GUITAR]

so to my understanding, a homemade pickup sustainer is wounded for a certain of ohms with a different AWG magnetic wire connected to an amp circuit like the ruby?  And then the sustainer does the opposite function of a magnetic pickup so it keeps the string in motion by altering its magnetic field in some way?

[The French connection]

Ebow!?!

http://www.youtube.com/user/yakuzaa1985

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwq0i6jP7dQ

[BAARON]

so to my understanding, a homemade pickup sustainer is wounded for a certain of ohms with a different AWG magnetic wire connected to an amp circuit like the ruby?  And then the sustainer does the opposite function of a magnetic pickup so it keeps the string in motion by altering its magnetic field in some way?

Pretty much.  You can use a little circuit like the Ruby to drive the sustainer.  You wind the sustainer it so its impedance (in ohms) is like the speaker the Ruby would expect, and then it basically just functions like an electromagnet on your strings.  That's all a speaker is, anyway: an electromagnet moving around a normal magnet.  In this case, it's an electromagnet moving the strings.

[petemoore]

  I think of it like a swing.
  A little push at the right time, in the right direction, during each swing cycle [or twice per cycle?] reinforces the strings swinging motion = sustain.

[bancika]

so to my understanding, a homemade pickup sustainer is wounded for a certain of ohms with a different AWG magnetic wire connected to an amp circuit like the ruby?  And then the sustainer does the opposite function of a magnetic pickup so it keeps the string in motion by altering its magnetic field in some way?

Pretty much.  You can use a little circuit like the Ruby to drive the sustainer.  You wind the sustainer it so its impedance (in ohms) is like the speaker the Ruby would expect, and then it basically just functions like an electromagnet on your strings.  That's all a speaker is, anyway: an electromagnet moving around a normal magnet.  In this case, it's an electromagnet moving the strings.

yes, there's a calculator that tells you how many turns you need to wind for given wire diameter, bobbin size and desired impedance. I think I used 0.2mm wire.
That coil is essentially the same as the speaker. If it's phase matches phase of your guitar strings it amplifies the vibration and gives sustain. If you wire it the other way round it will feedback and give you that octave up thing...it's very easy to make and doesn't cost much so I think it's worth trying...

[liquids]

A little bit out there, but It seems this "Wired Feedbacker" is pretty cool, and along those lines...rather genius if you ask me, but not a Moog Guitar by any means....

Requires a separate speaker output...could cause some issues in terms of wattage, speakre impedances, etc, but I shure he could answer those questions...

fun to look at he video he has up if nothing else...scroll a bit, it's below the guitar amp, and above the theremin

http://www.rastopdesigns.com/effects.htm#miscellaneous

[puretube]

PSW
is here!!! :

check out all of his posts! 

[DUY1337GUITAR]

here's a small and cheap Radio Shack project to make a sustainer out of a piezo for those of you who haven't seen it.  Haven't seen this done before....
http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/sustainer.htm

[Rawkgod]

The Fernandez system has a feedback feature that automatically causes it to jump up an octave as it sustains.  But you can turn that off and just use it for sustain.

http://www.sustainiac.com/ sells sustainers too.

Building your own sustainer is about as simple as wiring your bridge pickup up to a Ruby 386 amp and connecting that to an 8 ohm driver coil instead of a speaker.  The coil goes where your neck pickup should be.  It sounds simple, and in theory, it is, but it's delicate work and requires finding unusual parts if you want it to look professional.  (There's a bit more to it than what I just described, but that's the gist of it.)


Ebow: they are incredibly cool.  I have seen people do some fantastic things with an Ebow.

My apologies. All of the demos that I have seen are metal players, and all they use is that feedback feature. And that does sound like a good idea.

  Another way to get that is Ebow.
 

I completely forgot about the Ebow. I wanted one ever since I saw Ed O'Brien use one. I guess I just never thought of it as sustain, and more as 'that awesome thing that Ed uses'

I have a Sustainiac in my bass; it's lots of fun. The Moog guitar is likely just 6 sustainers - one for each string. Processing is done in the loop between the pickup and the sustainer coil to get the special mute and selective sustain modes. Doing it to this extent would be an insanely complex undertaking, but if you can live without the special modes, building a hexaphonic sustainer is not impossible.

The regular sustainers are not able to sustain all 6 strings simultaneously. You can do one or two and sometimes 3, but generally no more.

In your bass you say? What does that sound like? I thought a sustainer wouldn't be able to use all six strings, because it would explode from the vibration.

Ebow!?!

http://www.youtube.com/user/yakuzaa1985

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwq0i6jP7dQ

Thanks Dan! I wasn't sure if anyone had made a DIY Ebow yet. BTY here is that schematic from the video.



And Phil Keaggy is pretty Awesome.

A little bit out there, but It seems this "Wired Feedbacker" is pretty cool, and along those lines...rather genius if you ask me, but not a Moog Guitar by any means....

Requires a separate speaker output...could cause some issues in terms of wattage, speakre impedances, etc, but I shure he could answer those questions...

fun to look at he video he has up if nothing else...scroll a bit, it's below the guitar amp, and above the theremin

http://www.rastopdesigns.com/effects.htm#miscellaneous

That looks pretty cool. I like that song that he made with it.

PSW
is here!!! :

check out all of his posts! 

I heard about this AMAZING thread, and how it has 40 pages. I am going to do a lot of research into this one and I hope to report my results.

Thanks a bunch everyone. If any else has results from any of these projects I would love to hear of them.

[space_ryerson]

I found the patents for the Floyd Rose sustainer, albeit dense, to be good reading on how a sustainer works. You can look them up on google patents. The numbers are 4,907,483; 5,123,324; 5,200,569; and 5,233123.

PSW

Holy wayback machine!

I heard about this AMAZING thread, and how it has 40 pages. I am going to do a lot of research into this one and I hope to report my results.

Unfortunately, due to squabbling, the then 40 page thread (which grew past 300 pages I think) was locked and hidden from that forum. It may come back at some point, if the moderators feel like making it visible again.

[flintstoned]

 What about the Colorsound Supasustain schem at scematic heaven? any1 try that?