PAiA Gator Vero Layout

Scruffie · October 07, 2009, 04:56:56 PM

Hey all,

Had some spare time and didn't feel like Suduko so I made a Vero layout for the PAiA Gator from the Gaussmarkov Schematic, haven't checked it at all yet, but it's atleast something to work from if you want to build one, 9V and VR need connecting between the seperate tracks, could probably also be made smaller by redoing the IC4 layout if needs be but I set it for the standardised board size.

edd29 · October 07, 2009, 05:39:45 PM

can you post sound sample. thanks.

Scruffie · October 07, 2009, 06:17:04 PM

Quote from: edd29 on October 07, 2009, 05:39:45 PM
can you post sound sample. thanks.

Nope, haven't built one, have a search around the forum, all I know is it's supposedly better at swelling than the Slow gear.

edd29 · October 07, 2009, 06:25:42 PM

Quote from: Scruffie on October 07, 2009, 06:17:04 PM
Quote from: edd29 on October 07, 2009, 05:39:45 PM
can you post sound sample. thanks.
Nope, haven't built one, have a search around the forum, all I know is it's supposedly better at swelling than the Slow gear.

how about the swell pedal http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=78203.msg643879#msg643879
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWdWrgiCQoY

Scruffie · October 07, 2009, 06:38:06 PM

Probably not far off that, I don't really know too much about the circuit, it's meant to be able to swell for quite a long time I think.

For anyone building by the way the TL071 is a suitable replacement for the LM308 in this pedal from my reading.

edd29 · October 07, 2009, 07:13:46 PM

Quote from: Scruffie on October 07, 2009, 04:56:56 PM
Hey all,

Had some spare time and didn't feel like Suduko so I made a Vero layout for the PAiA Gator from the Gaussmarkov Schematic, haven't checked it at all yet, but it's atleast something to work from if you want to build one, 9V and VR need connecting between the seperate tracks, could probably also be made smaller by redoing the IC4 layout if needs be but I set it for the standardised board size.

I'm just wondering the IC2 you posted is this the right one?

Scruffie · October 07, 2009, 07:24:35 PM

The schematic is at Gaussmarkov as I said (here http://gaussmarkov.net/layouts/gator/gator-schem.png ) , but no it should be a LM3080N rather than just a LM308N you're correct.

Mark Hammer · October 07, 2009, 09:16:40 PM

I don't have any samples offhand, but I have a Gator, and it does a decent job. It is first and foremost a noise gate, but has the added twist that the turn-on time can be fairly slow, which produces the swell effect. As with all such effects, and as with any noise gate too, it takes a bit of getting used to in order to adjust your picking. But it works fine once you get used to it. The nice thing about it is that you don't have to futz around with no stinking JFET.

The not-so-nice thing about it is that 3080s are getting harder to find than when the Gator was first launched.

cathexis · October 07, 2009, 11:29:03 PM

Beats Sudoku, doesn't it?

Good job, Scruffie!

Scruffie · October 08, 2009, 05:32:54 AM

Quote from: Mark Hammer on October 07, 2009, 09:16:40 PM
The not-so-nice thing about it is that 3080s are getting harder to find than when the Gator was first launched.

You're right about the 3080... I don't think I can even build this after doing the layout (not that I was intent on it too soon) I found one place doing the CA3080 metal can version for £4 and chip for £2 but that's pretty pricey with £4 postage.

Quote from: cathexis on October 07, 2009, 11:29:03 PM
Beats Sudoku, doesn't it?
Good job, Scruffie!

Cheers LARS

It certainly does beat Sudoku, i've gotta try and use less jumpers next time, but with all the free time I have at the moment I think I may get hooked on doing these... gunna give your Woody a shot next Mr Hammer.

dan5150 · October 15, 2009, 03:19:44 PM

Mark - How is it as a just a noise gate? I actually have one of these in my junk box that a buddy built when we were in high school. I have salvaged a few parts from it (Switch, pot), but have been thinking lately about needing a noise gate for my rig.

I was just thinking about pulling that thing out, and I found this post.

IIRC - it is a pretty big enclosure, with the knobs on the site of the box. It also has an SPST switch.

At a minimum, I would want to make it true bypass. I am also not interested in the "swell" functionality at all...

Thoughts - ?

jessej · October 15, 2009, 04:19:24 PM

One of my favorite patches on my Boss GT-10 pedal is to program two chains A and B, the B has 'slow gear' with around 100ms rise time and then send the A to a AC30 type amp and then B to a much a bit more crunchy amp and then when I play the combined signal has the sparkly attack from amp A and the 'oomph' from amp B. It sounds kinda compressed but works much better than a compressor. I hope you get the idea. Having a stereo spread on B makes it even more interesting...

I see slow gear is usually used for violin like volume swells, but I wonder how this one would work on faster rise times.. how flexible is the attack time and would the circuit benefit from adding a range switch for working between fast/slow attack times. Fast gear?

I'd love to have this as a one input, two outputs (clean/processed) pedal -> two amps.

I hope this doesn't interrupt the current discussion... it would be just a little mod, right?

Mark Hammer · October 15, 2009, 05:57:10 PM

Quote from: dan5150 on October 15, 2009, 03:19:44 PM
Mark - How is it as a just a noise gate? I actually have one of these in my junk box that a buddy built when we were in high school. I have salvaged a few parts from it (Switch, pot), but have been thinking lately about needing a noise gate for my rig.

I was just thinking about pulling that thing out, and I found this post.

IIRC - it is a pretty big enclosure, with the knobs on the site of the box. It also has an SPST switch.

At a minimum, I would want to make it true bypass. I am also not interested in the "swell" functionality at all...

Thoughts - ?

It does a decent job as noise gate, although like all noise gates, the degree of selectivity, or target range of maximum dialability for thresholds may not be one of your choosing. If it isn't (i.e., the range where you need to set the threshold just right represents maybe 5 degrees of Threshold control rotation) I encourage you to experiment with fixed resistors in series with the input and ground lugs of the Threshold control.

Actually, the Q&D Compressor, using the SSM2166 chip makes a really nice noise control/gate, and inserts it at the place where you normally need it most: at the front.

dan5150 · October 30, 2009, 11:05:25 PM

So I dug the ole' Gator out and put it back together. I must have built this thing in High School when I was first learning to solder, cuz the board is UGLY. I am a little suprised that it actually works.

I pinged Scott to see if he would post the manual for it up on PAiA talk, and he said it is on the TODO list, but may not happen soon. However, he did send the me the schem (Thanks Scott!).

With the threshold set at a minimum, and the level set at max, it sounds like it does what I need it to do. It is strange that level at max seems like unity gain... anyway. I do need a gate, and the current economic situation doesn't allow me to go get a BOSS NS-1, so I am thinking that this will have to do.

In reading the schematic, and using what little I do know, making it true bypass seems easy enough...

My only complaint is that there is a very audible noise when the gate kicks in. It sounds like a faint kick drum.

Any thoughts/ideas on how to remove that noise of the gate? Ironic, hua?

Here is the schem:

Marcvv · October 31, 2009, 08:24:30 AM

Quote from: dan5150 on October 30, 2009, 11:05:25 PM

My only complaint is that there is a very audible noise when the gate kicks in. It sounds like a faint kick drum.

Any thoughts/ideas on how to remove that noise of the gate? Ironic, hua?

Hi,

I built a gator from an original Paia kit.

I have had that very same problem and struggled quit a bit to get that fixed. It is part of the deisgn that it cuts the signal of. Some have a problem with it some not.
Even had a mail going about this with Scott.

In the end I replaced my battery with a power supply and have not had the problem since.......
Maybe give that a try?

Best, Marc

dan5150 · October 31, 2009, 04:18:54 PM

Thanks, I wired in a power jack and gave that a shot. It helped a bit. (I think my battery may have been weak) as I was able to reduce the 'pop' by backing off of the level, but it is still there.

Since I never intend on using the "ext. trigger" jack, I removed it, and will instead use the hole in the enclosure to mount the DC jack.

If I read the schematic correctly, once I remove the ext. input jack, I then need to wire lug 1 of the threshold directly to "H". Right? This is because the "Ext. Trigger" jack is a "closed circut jack" so it looks like they are connected when there isn't anything plugged in.

I am also noticing that even with the threshold down all the way, the gate still kicks in a bit early for my taste.

QuoteI encourage you to experiment with fixed resistors in series with the input and ground lugs of the Threshold control.

Mark - do you have any suggestions on where to start here? Do I need to do it in "pairs" meaning if I add one on the input, do I also need one on the ground lug as well?

Also - to make it true bypass, I am going to remove S1 the "cancel" switch, and wire my stomp switch between the input "I" and the output "A". Does that look right?

Thanks again for any help!

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PAiA Gator Vero Layout