Anyone building these to sell?

[liquids]

My lady has seen my builds and has asked when I am going to start selling my stuff to make money from it

Undoubtedly common...people around us see us doing things we like and spending a lot of time on it.  Rather than ask about it, learn about it, etc, the American way to encourage such activity is to say "you should try to make MONEY doing this!"  "you should start a small business!"      My wife says people at work always suggest I should become a chef since she brings my leftovers for lunch so often and they smell good.   She understands me thankfully, and says that no, I actually want to continue to like cooking for the fun of it, not make it my career...and, we both know I could never survive in a kitchen.  

The only way I could see it working personally for me would be to make really specialized unique sounding pedals... there are just so many overdrives, fuzzes, phasers, etc out there... I would think you would need a really unique sounding effect, maybe combo of other effects.

I definitely understand the sentiment.  There are of course plenty of EE and genius self-taught guys all around who do come up with somewhat unique stuff, or unique-enough variations to call original in some way.  Seems more than a few of them avoid the boutique pedal business, for the most part...though their designs don't!

What I find is a humorous, interesting paradox, though, is that most pedal builders don't seem to be much more than DIY experimenters, like and quite a few of us here.  Many guys who get into this DIy thing, like yourself, and learn to build pedals often realize,  "it's all been done, I have little unique to offer."  There is truth to that.  Despite there being a million variations on any circuit, there is often lot of deflation about the mojo the more you study and learn this stuff.  Being creative takes on new forms in the world of 9v, as opposed to say painting.

On the other hand, the marketing and mojo for most designers is regularly, well, in simple terms, quite the opposite.  Hey, they're trying to sell, not educate.  Most pedals are presented as a new idea, unique, and unlike anything else on the market. And they often are made by DIYers coming from the other side who also realize that it's all smoke and mirrors to some degree, mystery to the average user..

My story is, I really began to listen to the fine details of pedal tone and OD pedals after switching from using only amp OD.  I realized that though the pedals I liked offered a different tonality, or EQ curve, or gain level or slightly different feel and dynamics,  my ear heard that the core texture and response of the pedals I was comparing were variations on the same theme.  They all had similar misgivings.  Then came my demo of the BoR, and it seemed different at it's core.   Learning about that pedal indirectly sparked finally starting DIY thing for me...

Anyway, now I know that all of those other pedals weren't 'just TS clones' but they were variations on the same theme -- op amps with diode clipping.  My ears grew to hear that most of it was all variations on the same theme, but it sure was never marketed that way!  The BoR is at least a different building block.  Of course, out there, I saw that for example the BoR, the Fulldrive, and the Zendrive ad copy all say 'mosfet!'...and they're all telling the truth, but it's hard to sort it without more knowledge, or at least the schematic to stare at a bit blankly and compare symbols.      

Anyhow, I guess I just prefer those that say "this is nothing special, but its made it by me, and I tweaked and voiced it the way I like it."  But ithats bad for business.  

[realizewhoitis]

1) If you have to ask, you aren't ready.

2) You are paying for college to learn things.  Whatever you have to do on the side to make money should NOT take time from your studies.

3) Modding, if you choose to do it, will take much less investment on your part.  It requires precious little inventory, doesn't need a spray booth, better ventilation than they might have in residence, or a drill press and bench to sit it on.

I should probably mention I have my own house and workshop and am 23....I wait to go to college because I had a good job coming out of highschool I just want better things.....ok maybe not better things..Im studying to be a teacher

[petemoore]

  Oh yea, I sold a couple.
  Over the span of 10 years.
  I won the lottery also, over the span of about 20 years, I am 13 dollars ahead on the lottery, all investments and returns considered, I ''cheated fair'' to win at the lottery [after selling 25 loser ticket in a row, I bought 8].
  I too studied a ''sell effects'' plan, countless experienced eyes have too, some even pitched everything they had at the 'wall of effects sales' in an attempt to chisel out a meager profit, suffice it to say the wall can be brutally unforgiving, don't put your stuff on the block that you don't want to lose, even with master-plans there is a startling degree of un-luck.
 

[realizewhoitis]

  Oh yea, I sold a couple.
  Over the span of 10 years.
  I won the lottery also, over the span of about 20 years, I am 13 dollars ahead on the lottery, all investments and returns considered, I ''cheated fair'' to win at the lottery [after selling 25 loser ticket in a row, I bought 8].
  I too studied a ''sell effects'' plan, countless experienced eyes have too, some even pitched everything they had at the 'wall of effects sales' in an attempt to chisel out a meager profit, suffice it to say the wall can be brutally unforgiving, don't put your stuff on the block that you don't want to lose, even with master-plans there is a startling degree of un-luck.
 

Im 2075 ahead of the lottery only played 5 tickets twice   What makes it different for guys like us and guys like Robert Keeley?

[solderman]

My lady has seen my builds and has asked when I am going to start selling my stuff to make money from it, but personally know I could not make enough money off of it for it to be worth it.

Mine too. same awnser

[darron]

in the movie: "fuzz the sound that revolutionized the world" i noticed that so many guys had an engineering degree or similar and mucked around with their guitars, and then their wife told them to take it seriously.

now is also a good and bad time. with the recession, i KNOW that amp manufacturers right now are taking a massive hit, especially the medium sized ones! then again, not many people are as game to enter the market in a big way right now, so if you want to do it, do it big!

someone once told me that every depression music still stays strong. it's a cheap way of people keeping moral and cheer. but i don't think there's much money to make selling stuff cheap unless you know there's a distributor that will be able to buy them off you in large numbers, but then they can quickly turn on you too. be careful.

[realizewhoitis]

in the movie: "fuzz the sound that revolutionized the world" i noticed that so many guys had an engineering degree or similar and mucked around with their guitars, and then their wife told them to take it seriously.

now is also a good and bad time. with the recession, i KNOW that amp manufacturers right now are taking a massive hit, especially the medium sized ones! then again, not many people are as game to enter the market in a big way right now, so if you want to do it, do it big!

someone once told me that every depression music still stays strong. it's a cheap way of people keeping moral and cheer. but i don't think there's much money to make selling stuff cheap unless you know there's a distributor that will be able to buy them off you in large numbers, but then they can quickly turn on you too. be careful.

I agree about not being able to make cheap things.  Talking to you guys and making myself remember that i need to keep my time valued i know that quality things wont be cheap.

[Philippe]

One consideration might be to approach things with a classic & time honored MBA mentality, focussing on one's ROI & the least amount of expenditures. This generally involves skimping on materials, questionable designs & reliability, cheap unskilled labor, plus lots of cheesy advertising. Some call it the Nike Business Model although there seems to be countless businesses that rely on this savvy mantra. The end product may not be 'boutique' or anything but judging by all of the diposable stuff that can be had for $19.95 + shipping/handling (sometimes even two for the same special price), maybe consider opting for the US entrepreneur/made in the 3rd world route. I suspect there might even be some effects manufacturers/resellers out there who are actually manuevering along this highly profitable passage.   The Behringer-labeled stuff immediately comes to mind...I think they are European-based with overseas OEM.

[aziltz]

it seems like every time this comes up we start talking about unethical manufacturing processes in an effort to make money selling pedals.


and I realize I started one of these threads at one point too, so lets not judge.


so my input is, go ahead and sell them to your friends and local musicians and you'll at least find it easier to buy extra components to build things for yourself.

I think its quite rewarding to build something for someone else.

[petemoore]

  I saw a machine populating a tube amp PCB on 'How It's Made', it had finished in mere seconds, a very, very small fraction of the time it takes me.
  Combine that with every other established and non-established effects selling plan, a view of the level of competition begins to emerge.
  I don't have Jim Marshall's reputation or fame, and there's no way I can keep up with that machine...it looked like it was doin' 50 boards an hour or some such...takes me about 4 hours.
  That's not exactly a same for same comparison to hand-wired, but still, it demonstrates the business-ferocity that one-offs or old assembly line units face.

[ianmgull]

I think its quite rewarding to build something for someone else.

Absolutely. I'm sure at one point or another everyone has a wife or girlfriend tell them to start doing this for a living. Then you crunch some numbers and realize how much you would have to charge.

I've built about half a dozen pedals for friends of mine. It's nice to see them put my boxes to use. I don't really make profit aside from a meager hourly wage, but I do get lots of practice. For me that is the great benefit. You become more efficient at putting these things together and problem solving.

[R.G.]

It's a particularly human thing to do to think the world was created anew when one becomes aware of a new milieu the first time. The "sell my pedals, make lots of money" item has come up in effects forums each time we have had a new flush of newbies. In each group there is always one or more who are struck with this inspiration - or have it pushed on them by friend/girlfriend/bandmember/etc.

I've recently come around to the view that unless specifically stated otherwise **everyone** posting or lurking here is going to build pedals to sell. I'm guessing that the percentage is huge.

While there are over 15K members, I suspect that well under 1% of those actually ever post over five times. The rest either only read, or are gathering intelligence for their surge to the top of the musical equipment business.    That's what the allusion to the blooming flower is about, realizewhoitis. This issue comes up so often that we have a shorthand name for it - another flower is blooming, taken from the aphorism that we should let a thousand flowers bloom.

It's kind of like in the movie "Broken Arrow" where the lady lead is obviously appalled at the male lead using the term "broken arrow" for the loss of control of a nuclear weapon. He asks if she's upset that it could ever happen. She replies no, that's not what she's upset about. She's appalled that it happens so often that they have a special word for it. 

But I'm wandering around again. 'Scuse me. Gotta go water the flowers... 

[realizewhoitis]

It's a particularly human thing to do to think the world was created anew when one becomes aware of a new milieu the first time. The "sell my pedals, make lots of money" item has come up in effects forums each time we have had a new flush of newbies. In each group there is always one or more who are struck with this inspiration - or have it pushed on them by friend/girlfriend/bandmember/etc.

I've recently come around to the view that unless specifically stated otherwise **everyone** posting or lurking here is going to build pedals to sell. I'm guessing that the percentage is huge.

While there are over 15K members, I suspect that well under 1% of those actually ever post over five times. The rest either only read, or are gathering intelligence for their surge to the top of the musical equipment business.    That's what the allusion to the blooming flower is about, realizewhoitis. This issue comes up so often that we have a shorthand name for it - another flower is blooming, taken from the aphorism that we should let a thousand flowers bloom.

It's kind of like in the movie "Broken Arrow" where the lady lead is obviously appalled at the male lead using the term "broken arrow" for the loss of control of a nuclear weapon. He asks if she's upset that it could ever happen. She replies no, that's not what she's upset about. She's appalled that it happens so often that they have a special word for it. 

But I'm wandering around again. 'Scuse me. Gotta go water the flowers... 

where im from we have a word for people who search through boards for people asking honest questions hoping for honest answers--and to this point recieving them from some very helpful people--only to attempt to strike them down with a brand of humor only shared by themselves. while i could  refer to a poorly made movie to establisha  like of any maturity i wont, i will simply tell you that i have no intent on becoming "rich" from this but merely have fun while making some pocket change for gas. but thankss for reminding me that people like you do exist and that absit iniuria verbis will always hold true

[aziltz]

where im from we have a word for people who search through boards for people asking honest questions hoping for honest answers--and to this point recieving them from some very helpful people--only to attempt to strike them down with a brand of humor only shared by themselves. while i could  refer to a poorly made movie to establisha  like of any maturity i wont, i will simply tell you that i have no intent on becoming "rich" from this but merely have fun while making some pocket change for gas. but thankss for reminding me that people like you do exist and that absit iniuria verbis will always hold true

oh no you di'nt!   

I think you took his post the wrong way.

RG was just explaining "why" this topic is met so often with mixed reviews.  The statements about the reality of the members around here probably aren't far off.  I haven't been around long enough to know, but I hope I'm considered part of the 1% for contributing. 

I read the flower comments as explanation, and not jest and I don't think you should take it as an insult.  I don't see how he was striking down the idea of selling pedals at all, at least not any more so than some of the other, less friendly posts in this thread.  This thread topic is common enough that there's a name for it, and pictures even.  I don't see how the movie had any bearing.  It was just an example.

RG, among many people here, are full of great advice and knowledge and I, personally, would think twice about their comments so that I don't take them the wrong way.  There's a lot of real world experience here, and it probably helps to know who the advice is coming from so that it doesn't get misinterpreted.

So stick around, and you'll definitely start to pick up on everyone's views and experiences, and appreciate any comments you get.  RG is no troll...

[liquids]

Oh no!...don't chase R.G. away   

Then again, it's hard to imagine that anything or anyone could, since he still comments here...

If you're unaware, R.G. is on the short list of builders who have offered free info here on the 'net that many have built their business on, and he may well have been the first to do so.

I took his last comment as a bit of sad humor:  "'Scuse me. Gotta go water the flowers..."   As in, he continues to share his knowledge, which has 'launched' quite a number of pedal builders ships, or has watered many of the blossoming flowers from DIY newbies into pedal businesses...and continues to do so.   Any pedal builder outside of say, Boss (maybe!) who says R.G. has not been an influence is, well, mistaken....or, to twist another cliche, if R.G. had a nickel for every time someone utilized or cashed in on 'his 2 cents' on his website, here, and elsewhere, he'd be a multi-millionaire.      Do take any perceived cynicism in his writing or his being 'short' (if indeed that happens at all) in that context...

Cheers, R.G., we do thank you for your giving, and sharing the knowledge, and then giving some more...

[realizewhoitis]

Oh no!...don't chase R.G. away   

Then again, it's hard to imagine that anything or anyone could, since he still comments here...

If you're unaware, R.G. is on the short list of builders who have offered free info here on the 'net that many have built their business on, and he may well have been the first to do so.

I took his last comment as a bit of sad humor:  "'Scuse me. Gotta go water the flowers..."   As in, he continues to share his knowledge, which has 'launched' quite a number of pedal builders ships, or has watered many of the blossoming flowers from DIY newbies into pedal businesses...and continues to do so.   Any pedal builder outside of say, Boss (maybe!) who says R.G. has not been an influence is, well, mistaken....or, to twist another cliche, if R.G. had a nickel for every time someone utilized or cashed in on 'his 2 cents' on his website, here, and elsewhere, he'd be a multi-millionaire.      Do take any perceived cynicism in his writing or his being 'short' (if indeed that happens at all) in that context...

Cheers, R.G., we do thank you for your giving, and sharing the knowledge, and then giving some more...

I feel like an idiot, I would like to apologize to R.G. I read your response to quickly on my phone and it came across far different than the second reading so I am very sorry.  I have been reading many of your posts and you are a great source and very helpful. again R.G. I am sorry

[thereverend]

something tells me a college student would make more money delivering pizzas than building fx for money.

[realizewhoitis]

something tells me a college student would make more money delivering pizzas than building fx for money.

Yeah but Im a guitarist not a drummer

[hday]

something tells me a college student would make more money delivering pizzas than building fx for money.

I totally started delivering pizzas in college so I could pay for my pedal habit!

[realizewhoitis]

something tells me a college student would make more money delivering pizzas than building fx for money.

I totally started delivering pizzas in college so I could pay for my pedal habit!

I think my pedal habbit is why i worked for 5 years before starting college, now im learning to make my own so far its a blast. and thanks to some of the advice about starting with mods ive already got about 15 guys lined up to do 1-3 pedals a piece.